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ANA 737-700 close call on Sept 6 2011
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If all parts of this story are true it beggars belief that a single button could cause such mayhem with two qualified pilots in the cockpit. More to this story perhaps. Sounds more like rudder actuator problems rearing their ugly head again (not saying that's the case here but the severe rolling is very reminiscent of previous cases). If it is just a badly placed button, someone in Boeing needs their ass booted out the nearest door.
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Originally posted by TeeVee View Posti'm wondering what "button" would cause this.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
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Originally posted by Thurian View PostIf all parts of this story are true it beggars belief that a single button could cause such mayhem with two qualified pilots in the cockpit.
And believe me that there are a lot of instances where one single wrong movement can bring a plane down. Try for example pushing down hard, or exending the spoilers, or raising the landing gear, or stowing flaps and slats, seconds before touchdown. Try for example advancing the throtles with the terminal in forn of you, or with an airplane taking off in the runway in front of you. Or forget to retard one or more thrust after touching down with the AT still trying to hold the speed. And I'm talking about things that did happen (in some cases, luckily not at a so critical moment, in some cases, with tragic outcomes).
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
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Sounds completely plausible to me.
Both switches require rotating, and in the case of the door, you have to hold it in the rotated position until the person opens the door. Hold the rudder trim in the rotated position long enough, and you get a jet upset.
Its quite an unusual mistake to make, however I've seen and heard of bigger ones than that made.
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Originally posted by TeeVee View Postooohhhhh, in that case, let's sue boeing for making the two knobs so similar that it was a virtual guarantee that some JACKASS would confuse the two.
yeah, i'm armchair piloting on this one but are you friggin kidding me?
Somebody correct me if I"m wrong. IIRC, it was the FO so he would have reached somewhat behind him with his left hand (given he would have been in right seat).
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Photo above: As the two knobs are completely different in size and shape and have very different tactile surroundings it seems incredible that a pilot could grab and turn the wrong one without knowing it, which makes the given explanation seem pretty odd.
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here is what my friend, a 737 pilot had to say:
"As you can see, the rudder trim knob is just to the right of center at the bottom, while the door knob is in the very corner at the bottom. You've got to be a complete asshole to get those wrong. Not only are the size and shape different, but they move differently in terms of the feel of what happens when you move them.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mcdee6174/5990353245/"
hopefully the co-pilot has been terminated from his flying position...
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Originally posted by MCM View PostSounds completely plausible to me.
Both switches require rotating, and in the case of the door, you have to hold it in the rotated position until the person opens the door. Hold the rudder trim in the rotated position long enough, and you get a jet upset.
Its quite an unusual mistake to make, however I've seen and heard of bigger ones than that made.
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Originally posted by TeeVee View Posthey MCM, you know i respect your opinion but after discussing this incident with a 737 pilot, i'm convinced it is not so easy a mistake to have made. not to mention that this guy should have had a clue when he felt the aircraft starting to yaw and buck a bit.
Also roll is hard to feel, and roll would not have started until the autopilot could not keep with the yaw-induced roll tendency and gave up, and then bang!
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
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