TU-204 crash at VKO

[Alessandro]

video of the actual crash!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=dWONT47LFZM

Some very fortunate people in those cars, unfortunatly not everyone else made out alive...

[orangehuggy]

So fine, say the wow switch failed, first thing you do after touchdown is confirm spoiler deployment, if they didn't pull the lever and deploy manually, also stand on the foot brakes if deceleration is inadequate, he went off at a huge speed

[Gabriel]

So fine, say the wow switch failed, first thing you do after touchdown is confirm spoiler deployment, if they didn't pull the lever and deploy manually, also stand on the foot brakes if deceleration is inadequate, he went off at a huge speed

I don't know this type in particular, but some planes inhibit spoilers in certain configurations (example: flaps extended) and hence if the plane "thinks" it's flying it won't let you extend them, no even manually, and the same goes for the reversers.

[orangehuggy]

Reversers are possibly locked out but I'm confident that spoilers can be deployed in this situation on the 204

[Gabriel]

Reversers are possibly locked out but I'm confident that spoilers can be deployed in this situation on the 204

Maybe. As I've said, I don't know this type. But I remember the TAM A320 landing in Congonhas. In that case it was not a WOW failure, but that they left one thrust lever inadvertently not retarded. The spoilers did not extend and could not have been manually extended.

[Dmitry]

8

though designed in 1989, the airplane is still very raw... These PS90 turbofans are considered not reliable at all. There are constant complaints about the fail-safety of the aircraft.

24.05.2009 - Red Wings RA-64046 had an emergency landing after the engine failure.
18.06.2009 - Red Wings RA-64047 (aircraft which crashed at VKO) had an emergency landing at URKK after one engine stopped.
21.12.2012 - Red Wings Tu-204 overran the runway at UNNT.

Moreover, since Nov 2012 till Dec 2012 there were 8 cases of Tu-204 overrunning the rwy:
Red Wings (USSS), «Polar airlines» (UEVD), «UTair» twice (UWUU, UWLW), «Yakutia airlines» (URRR), «RusLine» twice (UUDD и UUYS), «Ak Bars Aero» (UWKE).

No preventive measures were taken...

A few pictures and videos here:

http://aircrash.ucoz.net/publ/5-1-0-145

[Dmitry]

seconds before the crash

Moscow plane spotters took pictures of 64047 with seconds left before the crash.

[ErwinS]

Moreover, since Nov 2012 till Dec 2012 there were 8 cases of Tu-204 overrunning the rwy:
Red Wings (USSS), «Polar airlines» (UEVD), «UTair» twice (UWUU, UWLW), «Yakutia airlines» (URRR), «RusLine» twice (UUDD и UUYS), «Ak Bars Aero» (UWKE).

No preventive measures were taken...

Those cases where not all with the Tu-204. Only red Wings operates the Tupolev of above mentioned airlines.
So it'isn't that bad.

Erie sight of that landing shots. I wonder why he crew didn't perform a go-around since none of the sytems to slow her down worked as it sems.

[hongmng]

Moscow plane spotters took pictures of 64047 with seconds left before the crash.

The second picture shows a rather steep landing angle(=too fast?), maybe thats the cause of the overrun? Thats clearly not an normal angle for approach.....

[Alessandro]

5th person as died due to the crash....

[TheKiecker]

Are pilots aware of the landscaping beyond a runway? Obviously they dont want to be there but do the have a map of obstacles and layout ?

[hongmng]

Are pilots aware of the landscaping beyond a runway? Obviously they dont want to be there but do the have a map of obstacles and layout ?

Well they must've been aware of the landscaping just beyond the runway, and the runway safety area(some dangerous airports have a cliff right at the end, thats something to be careful of), but this bridge I think was thousands of feet from the end of the runway, and planes don't usually overrun a runway by that much.(AF358 overran by about 1000ft, but for those small incidents that happen every week, they just overrun by a few feet). This also makes me wonder they overran at a VERY FAST speed.(and on the video, when they hit the bridge that is far from the runway, they were still going fast)

Sad......
For a plane crash, 1 death is just way too much.

[Gabriel]

Those cases where not all with the Tu-204. Only red Wings operates the Tupolev of above mentioned airlines.
So it isn't that bad.

Since Nov 5 there have been a total of 3 runways overrun where Red Wings' Tu 204 were involved.Three overruns in less than two months over a fleet of 8 aircraft, and it isn't that bad? (ok, 8 would have been even worse, but 3 is already terribly bad)

On a side but relevant note, after the overrun of Nov 5 in Novosibrisk, on Dec 28th Rosviatsia alerted Tupolev, the aircraft manufacturer, about a brakes malfunction that was identified as cause of the overrun, and in a letter dated Dec 24th 2012 Rosaviatsia demanded with reference to this overrun that all operators of Tupolev TU-204 should perform an extra lubrication to grease the drive mechanism limit switches that are crimped onto the main landing shock absorber before next departure.
Source: http://avherald.com/h?article=45ad34b5&opt=0

I wonder why he crew didn't perform a go-around since none of the sytems to slow her down worked as it seems.

How do you know both that none of the slowing-down means worked and that the crew was not attempting a go-around by when (or before) it crashed?

Erie sight of that landing shots.

There are couple of things that call my attention in these pictures:

In the second one, we see that the airplane is overflying a runway fixed-distance marker. I can't tell which marker it is (maybe some of our resident photo analyzers can tell, working together with Google Earth), but the first such marking is about 500ft past the threshold. Airplanes typically overfly the threshold at 50ft,a dn this plane is maybe higher than that (anyone can tell from the photo how high it is?) already 500ft past the threshold, so it is high.

The flat deck angle (low pitch angle) can mean one of two things (or a combination of them).

The pitch angle equals the flight path angle (which is negative in this case) plus the AoA angle, so the lower than normal pitch angle means that the approach is too steep or than the AoA is too small (the latter means that the speed is too fast).

High and fast, a possible combination of the above, is a good prospect for an overrun.

[ErwinS]

Since Nov 5 there have been a total of 3 runways overrun where Red Wings' Tu 204 were involved.Three overruns in less than two months over a fleet of 8 aircraft, and it isn't that bad? (ok, 8 would have been even worse, but 3 is already terribly bad)

On a side but relevant note, after the overrun of Nov 5 in Novosibrisk, on Dec 28th Rosviatsia alerted Tupolev, the aircraft manufacturer, about a brakes malfunction that was identified as cause of the overrun, and in a letter dated Dec 24th 2012 Rosaviatsia demanded with reference to this overrun that all operators of Tupolev TU-204 should perform an extra lubrication to grease the drive mechanism limit switches that are crimped onto the main landing shock absorber before next departure.
Source: http://avherald.com/h?article=45ad34b5&opt=0


How do you know both that none of the slowing-down means worked and that the crew was not attempting a go-around by when (or before) it crashed?


There are couple of things that call my attention in these pictures:

In the second one, we see that the airplane is overflying a runway fixed-distance marker. I can't tell which marker it is (maybe some of our resident photo analyzers can tell, working together with Google Earth), but the first such marking is about 500ft past the threshold. Airplanes typically overfly the threshold at 50ft,a dn this plane is maybe higher than that (anyone can tell from the photo how high it is?) already 500ft past the threshold, so it is high.

The flat deck angle (low pitch angle) can mean one of two things (or a combination of them).

The pitch angle equals the flight path angle (which is negative in this case) plus the AoA angle, so the lower than normal pitch angle means that the approach is too steep or than the AoA is too small (the latter means that the speed is too fast).

High and fast, a possible combination of the above, is a good prospect for an overrun.

Hold your horses. I didn't say anything that I know. I am just speculating.
The 1st overun was not caused by the aircraft, but conditions and crew.
And if you considere the circumstances they operated it's not really shocking to have two overuns before this one.
If you search on the net on runway/taxiway excursions you'll see they are fairly common.

The video shows an aircraft speeding fast so that's why it seems that there was no proper braking action. So no wheel braking action al least. It was an emty a/c and light so with reverser action she should be stopped without a problem, even without wheel brakes.

Anyway, the investigation will tell and hopefully Tupolev can recover from this alough I think this is the end of the 204.

[Dmitry]

Those cases where not all with the Tu-204. Only red Wings operates the Tupolev of above mentioned airlines.
So it'isn't that bad.

Erie sight of that landing shots. I wonder why he crew didn't perform a go-around since none of the sytems to slow her down worked as it sems.

Correct, i'm sorry. But still the statistics is a bit annoying.

The preliminary cause of the accident is the reverse system failure. The same problem occured when their Tu-204 overran at Novosibirsk-UNNT a week ago.

http://lifenews.ru/news/109029

The second picture shows a rather steep landing angle(=too fast?), maybe thats the cause of the overrun? Thats clearly not an normal angle for approach.....

Maybe they applied wrong derotation? The approach looks really steep and the speed fast.

In the second one, we see that the airplane is overflying a runway fixed-distance marker. I can't tell which marker it is (maybe some of our resident photo analyzers can tell, working together with Google Earth), but the first such marking is about 500ft past the threshold. Airplanes typically overfly the threshold at 50ft,a dn this plane is maybe higher than that (anyone can tell from the photo how high it is?) already 500ft past the threshold, so it is high

Somehow the touch down was quite far from the point.

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5625/166530881.1/0_b66eb_e6a94bf_XXL

At the neighbouring Russian forum the photographer explains some things.
take for example the picture of 65905.

http://russianplanes.net/id93669

the one of the crashed 65047 was taken 350m away from that point.

http://russianplanes.net/ID94178

plus failure of braking systems...