Malaysia Airlines Loses Contact With 777 en Route to Beijing

[AVION1]

But primary radar should have seen the two echos merging.

This is just like the Amazon, not radar ! or some places in the caribbean or south atlantic. Not radar. Most of those countries have their radars under repair or under maintenance or they are operating an obsolete system.

[Peter Kesternich]

This is just like the Amazon, not radar ! or some places in the caribbean or south atlantic. Not radar. Most of those countries have their radars under repair or under maintenance or they are operating an obsolete system.

AVION - this area is nothing like the Amazon. Why do you keep insisting that there is no radar there? How did the flight tracking sites manage to show the flight if there wasn't? We are not talking about a vast jungle here but about countries that have hundreds of flights travelling between them.

But if you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe this site:

http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b&opt=0

Radar and loss of radar contact are mentioned there several times.

[Gabriel]

And... there is full secondary radar coverage over the Amazon, and nearly full primary radar coverage too.

In fact, as ironic as it might seem, this good double coverage was a necessary link in the Gol/Legacy mid-air.
The primary and secondary radar data is fed into a computer that then shows the "blips" in a computer screen.
When the secondary radar lost contact of the Legacy, the computer matched the lost transit with the one of the primary radar and kept showing the information of the flight in the screen, with the identification and ESTIMATED altitude and all, nearly as if it was still in contact with secondary radar. The icon of the plane in the screen changed to show that now it was primary radar info only, but the ATC guy missed that cue. The ESTIMATED altitude was 1000ft below the real one, so the ATC guy thought that they would miss each other by 1000 ft (as it is supposed to happen in RVSM airspace -Reduced Vertical Separation Minimums). The rest is history.

[georgel]

Why do you keep insisting that there is no radar there? How did the flight tracking sites manage to show the flight if there wasn't?

Those sites maintain their own network of volunteers that run on their own PCs small clients that control amateur radio receivers (usually cheap USB SDRs) that capture off the air ADS-B (and other) packets and send them over IP to a centralized server(s). These have nothing to do with ATC radar coverage.

[James Bond]

This is looking more and more like N844AA than SWR111 or KAL007.

[Peter Kesternich]

This is looking more and more like N844AA than SWR111 or KAL007.

Quite possible... but N844AA had only a handful of people on board, not 239.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N844AA

[AVION1]

AVION - this area is nothing like the Amazon. Why do you keep insisting that there is no radar there? How did the flight tracking sites manage to show the flight if there wasn't? We are not talking about a vast jungle here but about countries that have hundreds of flights travelling between them.

But if you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe this site:

http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b&opt=0

Radar and loss of radar contact are mentioned there several times.

I have been invited to see the ATC centers at many airports many times, and I have seen the radar screen live, with the controllers in front of me, and airplanes without transponders, are shown like a weak dot. You don't know if it is an airplane, a hot air balloon or something else. That's why every aircraft flying in controlled air space MUST have a working transponder.
Again, maybe another aircraft was flying with a dead transponder in the same altitude?

[Peter Kesternich]

Those sites maintain their own network of volunteers that run on their own PCs small clients that control amateur radio receivers (usually cheap USB SDRs) that capture off the air ADS-B (and other) packets and send them over IP to a centralized server(s). These have nothing to do with ATC radar coverage.

But the ADS-B is not there for the enthusiasts' enjoyment There was radar coverage of that flight.

(...)Subang Air Traffic Control reported at 02:40 local Malaysian time, that radar and radio contact with the aircraft had been lost. The last radar position was N6.92 E103.58.(...)

(...)Malaysia's Air Force reported their primary radar data suggest, the aircraft may have turned west over the Gulf of Thailand(...)

http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b&opt=0

[Peter Kesternich]

I have been invited to see the ATC centers at many airports many times, and I have seen the radar screen live, with the controllers in front of me, and airplanes without transponders, are shown like a weak dot. You don't know if it is an airplane, a hot air balloon or something else. That's why every aircraft flying in controlled air space MUST have a working transponder.
Again, maybe another aircraft was flying with a dead transponder in the same altitude?

Have you been to Kuala Lumpur or Ho Chi Minh City recently? If not, you have no other sources than the rest of us on this forum In any case, according to the information available so far, there WAS primary radar coverage and if an unidentified radar return had merged with MH370, we would already know about that.

[BlueMax]

Incredible that Malaysian Military confirming today the change of course direction and additional tracking of this plane. How many man-hours, equipment, time and cost has been lost searching areas the Military clearly knew that the plane could not be in.

With news and photos of the co-pilot violating cockpit integrity by allowing visitors in, theory of intentional direction change, communication loss, transponder off followed by "controlled" plunge gains momentum.

[georgel]

But the ADS-B is not there for the enthusiasts' enjoyment There was radar coverage of that flight.

Are you sure?

[Peter Kesternich]

But the ADS-B is not there for the enthusiasts' enjoyment There was radar coverage of that flight.

Are you sure?

Maybe I should rephrase that

"But the ADS-B is not there SOLELY for the enthusiasts' enjoyment."

[BoeingBobby]

Maybe another aircraft was flying with a dead transponder in the same altitude?

Happens a lot at FL350!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5aW08ivHU

[AVION1]

Happens a lot at FL350!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5aW08ivHU

Here is the DHL cargo jet mid air collision with a russian jetliner full of kids !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5I9yVEZWmw

[fors43]

What are the odds MAS370 is intact and on a remote Indonesian air strip? I'd say high