Ariana 737 on her belly at Kabul

[Gabriel]

Gabriel , If I had known you were around I would have put on my favorite smoking jacket and packed only the finest of pipe .

I'm always around.

[brianw999]

If you guys want to get personal then please use the PM facility. Keep posts on topic.

[AA 1818]

If you guys want to get personal then please use the PM facility. Keep posts on topic.

I am so using this for my signature.

So, here's a related question;

In the case of a crash such as this - who conducts the investigation? Afghan Officials have jurisdiction over the site, but do they have an operating investigation department?

The NTSB can send investigators due to the aircraft being American, Boeing can send a team as it is a 737, or is this factually not correct. I am just wondering how we go from event to end, especially in Afghanistan's current condition.

[EconomyClass]

I'm guessing it will be either EU or US or maybe even both.

[Evan]

My only curiosity is how you maintain any airport security in a land like that? Is that airline allowed to land in Europe? Or does it just ferry people around in Asia?

To answer your question, the EU has banned all Afghan operated flights (Ariana included) since at least 2010. It is not clear as to whether this has to do with the airlines or the politics and terrorist potential, but while Ariana has lost two aircraft since the fall of the Taliban to runway overruns, they have not had a fatal accident in 16 years.

They are indeed operating mainly in the Middle East with flights also to Moscow.

This accident is particularly sad because Ariana now has only 4 modern aircraft left. India has been a key supporter, having given them three A300's in 2002. Perhaps they will extend that generosity once more. Or perhaps the Pakistanis will pony up some support...

The US government should but, y'know, they're broke.

I'd like to see them make a comeback. They have (or had) such a nice livery.

[AA 1818]

This accident is particularly sad because Ariana now has only 4 modern aircraft left. India has been a key supporter, having given them three A300's in 2002. Perhaps they will extend that generosity once more. Or perhaps the Pakistanis will pony up some support...

I doubt that the Pakistanis can afford to give much away, as PIA is at a different stage in their development than AirIndia was at that time. PIA's new owners might have other plans for the assets (which most likely would have been sold to them as a package) LUNN can provide us a much better insight here, and I wish that he would shed some light on the area. Of note were his comments in this thread regarding A310s;

The aircraft has been de-registered and decals painted over, its GE engines have gone to one of PIA's A310, I guess its VIP interior has been stripped too as it was given over to PIA to convert for commercial use last year by the then care taker govt. however PIA opted not to, likely that this low cycle aircraft will be scrapped.

PIA itself has also de-registered two more A310s bringing the fleet down to six from eight, they operated twelve in total six GE that they had ordered and six PW engined which they leased and almost a decade later bought from Airbus.

If indeed Pakistan were considering donating a few - these would be prime candidates.

Now, I am in support of India and Pakistan donating aircraft to Ariana. However, from the devil's advocate position - they sure do know how to break a plane. Do you really want to give them more?

The US government should but, y'know, they're broke.

Ok. I think that considering how much the U.S. has done to/for Afghanistan, it's uncalled for. Horrible war et al aside for a moment - the U.S. has been sinking major money into Afghanistan. Karzai's joke of an uncorrupt government soaked up billions, and in a case where you are literally bribing your own enemy - who can imagine how other assets would be squandered as well. The aircraft from AirIndia were provided over a decade ago. What has the airline made of itself since then?

I'd like to see them make a comeback. They have (or had) such a nice livery.

I'd agree with you here, but I think that I would rather see the market (OMG, I am going to be shunned by Al Gore for this) determine who operates in the area. I love Ariana, and it has a fascinating history - a hard one, that has been both beautiful and heart breaking, but the airline is coming to a market that is not very welcoming to airlines of that kind to begin with, and people pumping money into it won't make it come to the realities of it's market any sooner. If there were a sizable market, and Ariana were perfectly equipped to handle it, it would still have to compete with every other major carrier in the region. Looking at the sluggish performances of other 'flag carriers' in the region; Air India and PIA, both are loss making enterprises that have been mis-managed (some better than others, lol) and are massive money pits for their respective governments. Does the Afghan government need that headache as well, especially now? Can they afford it? Best case scenario, with the best aircraft - they still won't be allowed to do direct stops to most of Europe, and if Pakistan can't have direct-access flights to the U.S., I can't imagine Ariana getting them soon either. Surely, I am not advocating letting the airline head into bankruptcy and burn out, but we need to be more realistic as to the true nature of the market. Because competitors are already doing that, and they do it well.

[Leftseat86]

The US government should but, y'know, they're broke.

Considering how much money the US has dumped into Afghanistan in the last decade, buying them a new 737-400 would amount to chump change.

[Evan]

Considering how much money the US has dumped into Afghanistan in the last decade, buying them a new 737-400 would amount to chump change.

Yeah. Borrowed chump change. The US has neither the spare change to buy them a 737-400 nor the billions needed to lose a war of attrition in Afghanistan over the past decade. Blank checks on the other hand, that we have...

I have seen photos of a 757 in Ariana livery back in 2004. Apparently there were two of them. They were never placed in service AFAIK and passed on to other operators shortly thereafter. There is also a 747-200 in ex-United livery that was apparently being operated under an Ariana call-sign a while back. If you search the internet you will find a 747-400 in full Ariana livery but it has to be a fake.

[EconomyClass]

To answer your question, the EU has banned all Afghan operated flights (Ariana included) since at least 2010. It is not clear as to whether this has to do with the airlines or the politics and terrorist potential, but while Ariana has lost two aircraft since the fall of the Taliban to runway overruns, they have not had a fatal accident in 16 years.

They are indeed operating mainly in the Middle East with flights also to Moscow.

This accident is particularly sad because Ariana now has only 4 modern aircraft left. India has been a key supporter, having given them three A300's in 2002. Perhaps they will extend that generosity once more. Or perhaps the Pakistanis will pony up some support...

The US government should but, y'know, they're broke.

I'd like to see them make a comeback. They have (or had) such a nice livery.

Moscow, eh? With THEIR Muslim terrorist problems? They're pretty cocky.