Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Human factors.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Human factors.

    Amtrak crash, US Northeast 5/12/2015

    I know it's a train, but the business of a well trained person forgetting to do something that is seemingly basic continues to affect almost all modes of moving transportation.

    Preliminary report that it was going 100+ MPH into a curve limited to 50 MPH.

    So, being somewhat serious- it would appear we could really use some sort of [improved] automated warning system- that's only fractionally as complicated as all the stuff our airline drivers have.

    Bitching Betty/Ben: Curve ahead...slow down....curve ahead...slow down. Overspeed...overspeed...

    And maybe a dang power killer brake applicator (Ought to be simpler than a stick shaker and autothrottles and autobrakes and a TOGA button.)
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  • #2
    This sound eerily familiar to the derailed Via train a couple years back in Burlington ON.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Bu...VIA_derailment

    Crew missed a speed signal and kept on chugging full speed into a track switch which led to a rapid derailment of a fast moving passenger train.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by 3WE View Post
      So, being somewhat serious- it would appear we could really use some sort of [improved] automated warning system- that's only fractionally as complicated as all the stuff our airline drivers have.

      Bitching Betty/Ben: Curve ahead...slow down....curve ahead...slow down. Overspeed...overspeed...

      And maybe a dang power killer brake applicator (Ought to be simpler than a stick shaker and autothrottles and autobrakes and a TOGA button.)
      That exists - it's called "positive train control": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control

      And it's installed on most of the line that train was on... but not the section where the train was.
      Be alert! America needs more lerts.

      Eric Law

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by elaw View Post
        That exists - it's called "positive train control": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control

        And it's installed on most of the line that train was on... but not the section where the train was.

        Saw that!

        So, maybe it's time for 100%/universal application of Positive Train Control anytime you are going faster than 50 MPH.

        And glad to know that human factors are not relevant to aviation safety...Forgetting that there's a turn ahead has no bearing on forgetting that the autothrottles might not be working, forgetting that the spoilers are still up, forgetting to check the altitude while you descend into a swamp, forgetting to turn on the engine deice, or forgetting flaps and gear slow you down on a late, icy night in the clouds...

        At least be accurate and say, "Moved, not a plane crash".
        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 3WE View Post
          And glad to know that human factors are not relevant to aviation safety...Forgetting that there's a turn ahead has no bearing on forgetting that the autothrottles might not be working, forgetting that the spoilers are still up, forgetting to check the altitude while you descend into a swamp, forgetting to turn on the engine deice, or forgetting flaps and gear slow you down on a late, icy night in the clouds...
          Point taken and I agree, but IMHO this accident wasn't due to "forgetting" anything, it was failure to react to a very obvious sign that action had to be taken... in this case literally a "sign". Two in fact: one showing a speed limit of 80, the other showing a speed limit of 50. But that's still human factors for sure.
          Be alert! America needs more lerts.

          Eric Law

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by 3WE View Post
            Saw that!

            So, maybe it's time for 100%/universal application of Positive Train Control anytime you are going faster than 50 MPH.

            And glad to know that human factors are not relevant to aviation safety...Forgetting that there's a turn ahead has no bearing on forgetting that the autothrottles might not be working, forgetting that the spoilers are still up, forgetting to check the altitude while you descend into a swamp, forgetting to turn on the engine deice, or forgetting flaps and gear slow you down on a late, icy night in the clouds...

            At least be accurate and say, "Moved, not a plane crash".
            I'll be even more accurate.... "Moved to the correct place". Aviation safety forum doesn't always talk about air crashes but it never talks about Train crashes. That's probably the main reason why Aviation authors don't write in Train related media.
            If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
              I'll be even more accurate.... "Moved to the correct place". Aviation safety forum doesn't always talk about air crashes but it never talks about Train crashes. That's probably the main reason why Aviation authors don't write in Train related media.
              No, but Richard Quest is apparently getting a game show, a development that doesn't entirely surprise me.

              Comment

              Working...
              X