Americans get ready to pack lighter for trips to Europe

[rohank4284]

British Airways announced on July 30th that starting October 7th, passengers traveling in World Traveler, would now only be allowed 1 free piece of free checked baggage, and customers who paid online could get the second bag $48 each-way, at the airport customers checking in a second bag would be charged $60 each-way.

World Traveler Plus passengers can check in 2 bags for free, and World Traveler Passenger taking direct-connections between the US and Canada and India are allowed 2 bags. In addition, World Traveler Passengers from Brazil, Ghana, and Kenya are still allowed 2 bags.

So, far nobody had bothered to match British Airways move, but on August 27th, starting on Sept. 15th Continental Airlines announced that passengers traveling from the US to European destinations in economy class, will now have just one free bag and a $50 charge will be applied for the second bag, pre-paid second bags will cost $45 each way if paid in advance online.

So what are your guys thoughts?: is cutting free baggage allowances on trans-continental flights, a good move for Continental and British Airways or just a plain stupid one, which the industry is not going to follow.

Regards,

Rohan

[saupatel]

Soon they will charge people based on how much they weigh too

I was watching a discovery channgel special on "A day in the life of American Airlines" and they were showing all the ways airlines are trying save cost on a flight and the biggest thing is weight. I guess by limiting everyone to one bag, they can save that some fuel and if people want a separate bag then the bag cost should help offset the extra fuel cost. Just my thoughts.

[TeeVee]

AA has implemented changes to their baggage policy as well. http://www.aa.com/aa/viewPromotionDe...&reportedPos=1

one of the biggest problems with these baggage policies is what is doing to the cabin. everyone and their mother now boards with 80 lbs. of crap! makes boarding take longer which costs money, and it has transferred the "weight" upstairs. worst part is, i have yet to see gate agents enforcing size limitations on carry-ons.

instead of charging extra for bags, raise the price of the ticket. I for one cannot stand the nickel and dime pricing structure. but then again, i am a business traveler with elite status so most of these charges do not apply to me. and yeah i understand the argument that those who travel light would like to save money if they can. so how about this: the fare for a trip from a to b is 150.00. if you do not check a bag, you get a credit.

[rohank4284]

Soon they will charge people based on how much they weigh too

I was watching a discovery channgel special on "A day in the life of American Airlines" and they were showing all the ways airlines are trying save cost on a flight and the biggest thing is weight. I guess by limiting everyone to one bag, they can save that some fuel and if people want a separate bag then the bag cost should help offset the extra fuel cost. Just my thoughts.

Yep, fuel costs and one of the biggest problems airlines have, so natually they are going to do everything to reduce weight. I agree one bag at 50 lbs. is ok for most of us traveling to Europe, so I am not very bothered by the change.

AA has implemented changes to their baggage policy as well. http://www.aa.com/aa/viewPromotionDe...&reportedPos=1

one of the biggest problems with these baggage policies is what is doing to the cabin. everyone and their mother now boards with 80 lbs. of crap! makes boarding take longer which costs money, and it has transferred the "weight" upstairs. worst part is, i have yet to see gate agents enforcing size limitations on carry-ons.

instead of charging extra for bags, raise the price of the ticket. I for one cannot stand the nickel and dime pricing structure. but then again, i am a business traveler with elite status so most of these charges do not apply to me. and yeah i understand the argument that those who travel light would like to save money if they can. so how about this: the fare for a trip from a to b is 150.00. if you do not check a bag, you get a credit.

I traveled when the second-bag fee was introduced on US domestic flights, but the first bag was still free. As for the airplane most people brought a reasonable amount of cabin baggage and for the most part there was more than enough room for everyone's carry-ons. I then traveled last January, when most airlines were charging $15 at the first checked bag and despite the gate agents at getting the grossly overweight and huge carry-ons people were trying to bring on, the overhead bins were basically filled to the brim.

Personally, you should be allowed one free checked bag on all flights, but anyway I don't the new fees to Europe causing huge problems.

Regards,

Rohan

[LH-B744]

Most national carriers like LH and AF (and all others, that is normal isnt it?) do have weight restrictions. So you can decide to check in one 20-kg-bag or two 10-kg-bags, that would be free luggage for 1 person.
How many things, that you have at home, do you want to take with you? Since I was a school boy, I restricted my luggage just for the sake of my spine!

Maybe there are exceptions to that. If you need a notebook, e.g. because you board for a long transatlantic and you have to write some words, then you have 1 bag (notebook) + 1 bag (checked luggage) + 1 bag (unchecked luggage). Or wouldn't it be enough to have the notebook (bag) as unchecked luggage? Maybe 1 book, 1 charger and... 1 whateverlittlethingyoulike also fits into the notebook bag within a healthy weight for unchecked luggage.

And how many kilos of... clothes? do you need to take with you when you come to Europe?

[LH-B744]

Well, as you see I've never tried to use a notebook aboard, because I am an opponent of sending eMails, sms, using a phone to talk 8 hrs without a break wherever you lie and stand etc etc etc . But that is only me. Other people may have different needs.
But as mobile phones are not allowed/have to be switched off, isn't it the same with notebooks?

I've just read something about luggage and size/weight, apparently it is important, which route you take. On the Germany -- Canada and Germany -- US - routes, LH seems to allow more than 20 kg free luggage... (But do I need that?)
For my next private trip, I need the phone number of the airline's airport office, I certainly have one question.

[Eric Diffoot]

I'm ok with it since they at least still allow 1 free bag, which I wouldn't be surprised disappear someday. It makes sense that this helps airlines lose extra weight to save gas and sends a message to passangers to carry ensentials, not extra stuff that you can get once you arrive. All that is said and done, this is like gasoline, no matter what price they set, people will still pay for it. As for AA, which I fly most often, I never check-in baggage, and an extra $5 isn't that bad.

[AA 1818]

Irregardless of how I feel about the fees, they are a major source of revenue for the airlines, and so they are likely to stay (and perhaps, grow in the future). However, as much as I have my fav. airlines, nowadays, I am choosing options based on amenities provided. Recently, when I was making a trip to JFK (from PBI) both AA and B6 were around the same price, although AA would have had to route me via DFW (and use MD-80s, which has both it's positives and negatives). B6 was more expensive by approximately $17 dollars, but considering that it was I was not going to have to pay baggage fees, I chose them. Would I have preferred to have given my money to AA? Yes. Did I? No. Simply put - nickeling and diming passengers is sickening. Sadly, it is here to stay.

[Evan]

As far as BA goes, it's one less bag for them to lose and then arrogantly refuse to reimburse you for, so I say it's a good thing. As far as more considerate airlines go (stay the course, Delta), I believe this will further entice people to overburden their carry-on luggage and purchase larger bags to check. Sometimes you have to travel with bulky equipment and you can't afford business class. I've been menaced by the low cost euro carriers on overweight luggage (they want an extra 80 euro for 1 kilo over weight). What did I do in that situation? I pulled my bag off the scale, opened it, put the heavy stuff in my carryon and problem solved, except they are still carrying the same weight in flight and I have a shoulder injury I won't soon forget. Bad for business, zero gain for fuel efficiency. Dumb overall.

The smarter solution would be to stop playing head games with customers and just raise the prices instead of cutting the services...and then offer discounts for things like a single checked bag. This will create incentive among passengers who want to get the best deal without creating the punitive image that restrictions bring about. But, from what I can tell, most of the capable thinking in the airline business takes place in the cockpit only.

A fair price, no surprises at check-in, no added fees, no head games, and customers treated with dignity and gratitude. Let's go back to that.

[rohank4284]

As far as BA goes, it's one less bag for them to lose and then arrogantly refuse to reimburse you for, so I say it's a good thing. As far as more considerate airlines go (stay the course, Delta), I believe this will further entice people to overburden their carry-on luggage and purchase larger bags to check. Sometimes you have to travel with bulky equipment and you can't afford business class. I've been menaced by the low cost euro carriers on overweight luggage (they want an extra 80 euro for 1 kilo over weight). What did I do in that situation? I pulled my bag off the scale, opened it, put the heavy stuff in my carryon and problem solved, except they are still carrying the same weight in flight and I have a shoulder injury I won't soon forget. Bad for business, zero gain for fuel efficiency. Dumb overall.

The smarter solution would be to stop playing head games with customers and just raise the prices instead of cutting the services...and then offer discounts for things like a single checked bag. This will create incentive among passengers who want to get the best deal without creating the punitive image that restrictions bring about. But, from what I can tell, most of the capable thinking in the airline business takes place in the cockpit only.

A fair price, no surprises at check-in, no added fees, no head games, and customers treated with dignity and gratitude. Let's go back to that.

I agree with you about BA and their traditionally poor baggage/on-time records, although they are improving on the lost baggage now that T5 is finally coming under control. As for their on-time record, now that's another story.

I have never really minded airline fees from food to alcohol and everything in-between because it was either very easy to avoid those fees (like headphones and pillows) or were of better quality (like buy on-board food). Baggage fees are not as easily avoidable, yes I know you can stuff your carry-on for shorter trips, but family trips or slightly longer vacations it can become difficult. Nor do baggage fees, offer an improved service, the baggage tracking systems are still archaic and it can days to find a missing bag and you're not returned the fee, if the airline fails to deliver, which I find pretty stupid. I wouldn't tip a server 15-20% if he/she gave me crappy service at a dine-in restaurant, nor would I pay a pizza company that lost of my order and then delivers my pizza days after I ordered it.

Anyway, enough ranting. US airlines made $566 million off of baggage fees in 1Q 2009, so they're not going away. Originally used as an excuse for unsightly high fuel prices, most airlines are actually raising the price of the first bag domestically, even though fuel prices are comparatively much lower than last year.

I don't mind the new second-bag fee on trans-Atlantic flights because I still get 1 bag, which 80-90% of the time is more than enough, and if I have to carry an extra bag, $50 is pretty ok. If international airlines decide on charging me to take only one bag, I will take my business elsewhere. On an international flight to Europe, even in economy you're paying $800-1400 for a round-trip ticket, not like the $200-400 for a round-trip US domestic ticket, so I feel that you should get quite a few amenities in return.

However, I agree with Evan's arguments why not reward passengers who use less, rather than punishing passengers with confusing fees, it would save check-in agents and other passengers the agony of listening to uninformed and irate passengers and it would keep basic service levels aboard airplanes.

On a side note, United is once again trying to see if international passengers will pay for food, this time on select LAX/SFO-LHR/FRA flights, passengers receive a full meal and a snack before landing, but snacks are available for $2-3 during the flight. I truly hope that this dumb idea fails, much like the let's cut out hot meal service and charge you $9 for a sandwich plan on transatlantic flights idea United has last year.

Regards,

Rohan

[AA 1818]

Originally (when the idea of fees attached to the fares) was introduced, I supported the idea thinking that, overall - the base prices of tickets would be lowered. For example, in the event that we had airlines A, B and C operating the same route, and airlines A and B chose to keep the fare as all-inclusive of amenities, while C chose to attach fees, we as passengers would see airline C's fares lowered. In that way - airline C would be the lowest priced ticket, and it would be up to customers to uphold caveat emptor. Sadly, that was not the case, and this is where both CO and BA do leave me a bit perturbed. Their base fares have not decreased to compensate for the additional fees, and neither have most airlines that implemented them. I think that in this way, they will eventually see a backlash against them. When held against competitors where these fees are not implemented, and base prices are the same - what do you think that the consumer will purchase?

What I believe needs to happen is that we, as consumers, need to be a little more active in voicing disapproval over the 'fees'. Using our purchasing power in this, of all industries, can have major, long-lasting impacts. Sadly, we can easily rectify this situation, if we were well organized. I believe that our industry can effect the same and/or better efficiencies elsewhere, and sadly we are using these fees as a temporary savior, and perhaps as a crutch - prolonging one of the greatest plagues of our industry.

[EconomyClass]

Great topic. Now if there were only a website that compared the competing airlines' policies on this so that a traveler could do some whatif figuring before choosing an airline to a destination, then we'd be informed consumers. I know there's more to consider than just who's charging what fees, but if the baggage fee isn't added where necessary, how does one really know if A is cheaper than B?

Plus if A is cheaper than B but its quality stinks, that's another thing. The absolute lowest price only really matters if the the service quality exceeds the minimum that a person will accept.

[Evan]

However, I agree with Evan's arguments why not reward passengers who use less, rather than punishing passengers with confusing fees, it would save check-in agents and other passengers the agony of listening to uninformed and irate passengers and it would keep basic service levels aboard airplanes.

Exactly. In an unhealthy marketplace, the consumer will resort to activism. They get angry, make scenes, call customer service, spread invective across peer networks (that latter one is particularly dreaded by the marketing folk). Airlines take on unkind nicknames. This really messes with the brand department. Airlines must then divert money into damage control advertising and public relations, and possibly spend more than they saved. Apparently, major airlines still do not understand the spontaneous aspects of brand erosion in the age of peer networks, and that insulting fees are paid for in brand maintenance dollars.

I should also add that the customer service model used by most corporations today is a defensive and insulating one. Therefore, it must be addressed through the trickle-up doctrine. The poor gate agent is not responsible for the company policy, but you must complain and berate the poor gate agent (You can't treat people like this!) so that that agent will complain to his/her superiors ("People are freakin' out about this baggage fee thing Bob, and I'm going to end up strangling one of them") and so on up the chain until it makes it to the clueless career bureaucrats in the sleek conference room that thought this was a fine idea (Our containment initiative is causing froth across key touchpoints, Mr. Tilton). I'm sorry to say, this is how it works.

[Evan]

Great topic. Now if there were only a website that compared the competing airlines' policies on this so that a traveler could do some whatif figuring before choosing an airline to a destination, then we'd be informed consumers.

http://www.seatguru.com

http://www.airlinequality.com/

[ihatemondays]

I'm really disappointed, though I liked my June/July trip with BA.

To me, that means that I'll look to some other airline for my annual trip to California in in 2010. Sure, until then all of major airlines might have followed suit, but I won't easily forgive and forget who started it. And instead of running around LHR T5, I'll spare me at least two hours total time on a nonstop flight FRA-LAX. My portable DVD player is not that heavy, or maybe DLH switches more flights to A340-600's with in-seat personal entertainment...

ToM