Looks like they realized that they would not have enough fuel to reach the diversion airport
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Ural flight 1383
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Russian authorities have confirmed that a Ural Airlines Airbus A320 has carried out an emergency landing near a village while operating a Sochi-Omsk service. The aircraft came down in a field at Kamenka, in the Ubinsky district, some 180km northwest of Novosibirsk, according to the federal air transport regulator Rosaviatsia. ...moving quickly in air
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It might have been a "Special Landing Operation". If so, I'm impressed.
I tend to think, however, that it was a shabby A320 running on black market spares, losing green hydraulics and diverting to a longer airfield without factoring in heightened fuel burn. The report tells us that the diversion remained below 18,000ft with the main gear doors open. There's a drag penalty they seem to have overlooked.
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Originally posted by Evan View PostIt might have been a "Special Landing Operation". If so, I'm impressed.
I tend to think, however, that it was a shabby A320 running on black market spares, losing green hydraulics and diverting to a longer airfield without factoring in heightened fuel burn. The report tells us that the diversion remained below 18,000ft with the main gear doors open. There's a drag penalty they seem to have overlooked.
What is the report you mention?
We need to know why they didn't land at the originally intended destination.
If they had a hydraulic failure, extended the gear manually, and only then realized that the runway was going to be too short, then yes, that was an overlook. And then they didn't realize that they didn't have enough fuel to reach the alternate in that configuration? That is a second overlook in a row, because if you are not going to make it then landing at the original destination in a too-short runway is almost certainly a better option, first because the landing distances have big margins over actual performance, so most of the times you will be able to stop on a "too short" runway, and second because overrunning the runway and going at 60 knots onto the RESA will almost always be better than landing in a random field.
It is a standard practice in case of gear malfunction to check runway lengths and available alternates BEFORE running the alternate extension procedure. You might end deciding to go to the alternate for a number of reasons (not just runway too short, but also availability and capability of emergency services, availability or a repair center, meteoritical conditions, etc) and in that case you should not do the irreversible alternate extension until approaching the alternate airfield.
And yes, maintenance issues due to lack of legitimate spare parts may very well be part of the probable cause. I wonder if that is an item where the west should not impose sanctions on Russia to avoid compromising the civil aviation safety. Although, on the other hand, the the air transportation capabilities can be used for military reasons too (like transporting troops, weapons, food supplies and equipment)
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
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Also, I wonder if the pilot performed the landing while they still had some fuel (as they should) or if they waited until the engines run out of fuel and then performed a forced landing.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
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Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
From the pictures here: http://avherald.com/h?article=50e4701a&opt=0, the landing gear doors are hanging down which means that the landing gear was extended using the alternate method (gravity), which is consistent with a hydraulic failure.
What is the report you mention?
We need to know why they didn't land at the originally intended destination.
If they had a hydraulic failure, extended the gear manually, and only then realized that the runway was going to be too short, then yes, that was an overlook. And then they didn't realize that they didn't have enough fuel to reach the alternate in that configuration? That is a second overlook in a row, because if you are not going to make it then landing at the original destination in a too-short runway is almost certainly a better option, first because the landing distances have big margins over actual performance, so most of the times you will be able to stop on a "too short" runway, and second because overrunning the runway and going at 60 knots onto the RESA will almost always be better than landing in a random field.
It is a standard practice in case of gear malfunction to check runway lengths and available alternates BEFORE running the alternate extension procedure. You might end deciding to go to the alternate for a number of reasons (not just runway too short, but also availability and capability of emergency services, availability or a repair center, meteoritical conditions, etc) and in that case you should not do the irreversible alternate extension until approaching the alternate airfield.
And yes, maintenance issues due to lack of legitimate spare parts may very well be part of the probable cause. I wonder if that is an item where the west should not impose sanctions on Russia to avoid compromising the civil aviation safety. Although, on the other hand, the the air transportation capabilities can be used for military reasons too (like transporting troops, weapons, food supplies and equipment)
Certainly, it would have been wiser to land on the original field without flaps (they should still have had alt braking from the yellow system) and risk an overrun. But where do they send pilots in Russia who break precious Western airplanes? That fate would promote a risk-taking diversion. These guys are probably already digging potatoes in the permafrost (or trenches in Bakhmut).
And I agree, sanctions shouldn't be placed on spares for western commercial airliners. The Russians have plenty of home-grown military transports, so I think the chance of these parts aiding their terrorism agenda is minimal. Commercial aviation safety should remain immune from international conflicts.
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I just saw today's updated information on Avherald. It only adds to the confusion.
on final approach about 1 minute prior to estimated touch down the crew initiated a go around in Omsk due to the failure of the green hydraulic system
I guess one possible scenario is a crew that didn't understand the hydraulics distribution on the A320 erroneously assuming this would affect landing distance. If the green system pressure was still above the priority valve threshold, the gear would have been retractable in the go-around but then why not the doors as well?
More likely, the information coming out of Russia is unreliable.
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Originally posted by Evan View PostCertainly, it would have been wiser to land on the original field without flaps.
Can you see the RAT deployed in any pictures?
But most likely the pilots decided to find a good filed and land short of running out of fuel.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
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Interesting updates in http://avherald.com/h?article=50e4701a&opt=0
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
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Originally posted by Gabriel View PostWell, flaps and slats seem to be fully extended, which opens a new set of questions I suppose. Were they extended since the 1st approach?
There could also have been some malfunction in the fuel tank sensors that suddenly corrected itself. I mean, without proper maintenance, what can't be ruled out. I'd like to see the MEL status on this one.
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