777 Crash and Fire at SFO

[brianw999]

I wonder how much difference it would have made if they had had a Head Up Display ?

[3WE]

I wonder how much difference it would have made if they had had a Head Up Display ?

I'd speculate no crash....

[guamainiac]

From the angles that we can approximate, can the runway be seen from the flight deck during the approach used or how about from the normal descent?

[BlueMax]

Additional crash scene photos:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ee0_1374708401

[Joe H]

Brian
There is a point - a very fine one I admit, between overloading idiots on the flight deck with MORE info, and providing more appropriate info for the non idiots.
Like AF447, these were simply idiots who did not 'slip' through the training, they ARE/ WERE A PRODUCT of the so called training.
THESE GUYS CANNOT FLY !!!
10,000 hours experience ?????????????????
or, 1 hour, repeated 10,000 times. !!!!
I think the latter is true.

[Highkeas]

Brian
There is a point - a very fine one I admit, between overloading idiots on the flight deck with MORE info, and providing more appropriate info for the non idiots.
Like AF447, these were simply idiots who did not 'slip' through the training, they ARE/ WERE A PRODUCT of the so called training.
THESE GUYS CANNOT FLY !!!
10,000 hours experience ?????????????????
or, 1 hour, repeated 10,000 times. !!!!
I think the latter is true.

At my prior company (20 years ago) Asian pilots would come in for simulator training. During off-time one of the pilots told our company instructor he did not want to be a pilot but to be a gardner. But the "authorities" recruited him to be a pilot.

[BoeingBobby]

New approach lighting for SFO

http://www.thehulltruth.com/dockside...ch-lights.html


Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

[Joe H]

http://www.thehulltruth.com/dockside...ch-lights.html


Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

ROFLMFAO
Nice one.

As the great Bard is reputed to have uttered "One cannot polish a turd".

[guamainiac]

Polish thank you. The "p" is in caps.

Oppps, wrong thread.

[EconomyClass]

Need to split some hairs- There are 'altitude call outs ' but on the other hand, for the vast majority of the approach, they could have been aiming nearly perfectly at the landing spot and there's a comment that you want your eyes OUTSIDE the cockpit, not locked on gauges during 'critical moments'....and there are differences in your "glide angle" from time to time.

That being said, it's not an all-or nothing thing- folks are supposed to quickly scan all the primary instruments and check on stuff frequently- and then get the eyeballs back outside.

In this case, I say speed is the culprit. It is harder to judge with the eyeball, and from all appearances it seems like they were basically aiming at the landing point until very late in the game...they seem to pull up, but the plane does not power up...the speed slows...

Am I making sense?...there isn't neccesarily a call out that "we're over the approach lights, we should be at 237 feet"...that can be done extremely well with eyeballs, special approach slope lights (PAPI) that were on the airport and working, and often an ILS glide slope (though not here)...lots of good ways to judge if you are on the glide path.

Speed is generally managed with automatic throttles/speed control- but you are supposed to be glancing at the airspeed frequently to know that it's on target and you don't get good speed information by looking outside the cockpit...

Do any of you monitor the speed of your car on the freeway? I do, but that doesn't mean I'm taking my eyes off the car ahead of me for more than a split second. It is an ingrained habit to split attention among the speedometer, the traffic in my lane, and the cars around me. The safety experts say you can't be ignorant of any of this for long. Based on that, and given these guys are in the most dangerous part of the flight, I'd say that altitude awareness ought to be pretty high on their dynamic mental checklist. I know there's automation, but there's no use having humans in the cocklit unless they are making sure the automation is doing its job. "We thought autothrottle was on" sounds a lot like what a motorist might say to a cop writing a speeding ticket. I'm no aviation wonk, but I'm led to believe that pilots have gauges that give useful information on whether the landing is going per expectation.

[Joe H]

Polish thank you. The "p" is in caps.

Oppps, wrong thread.

Haha
Nice one dude.

[EconomyClass]

Got this off a news tracker. Wondering if the particular claim with lead to a trial. (The lawyers are swarming all over this thing. And the pilots' union is crying foul at the NTSB's manner of release of info)

The man, identified only as John Doe, was a passenger on the flight that crashed July 6 and is claiming that negligence on Boeing’s part in the design and manufacture of the plane were responsible for the accident, according to a suit filed in Cook County Circuit Court.

[B757300]

John Doe probably has a degree in underwater basket weaving, but that makes him an expert enough for some in aviation matters.

Nothing but scum sucking lawyers trying for a quick buck. I'm sure Scary Mary is or will be involved sooner or later. After all, she tried to sue Boeing over 9/11.

The sad thing is, Boeing won't even fight it. They'll just pay off the extortion because it is cheaper on the off chance they lose.

[Evan]

Nothing but scum sucking lawyers trying for a quick buck.

Consider this: John Doe doesn't have a chance of winning in court. His lawyer(s) know this but aren't telling him (probably telling him the opposite). Boeing knows this but they will probably agree to a modest settlement to stop the rumor mill effect (Ex: FOX Breaking News: "Is the Boeing 777 a FLYING DEATHTRAP?! We'll let you know what one man says after this [paid commercial]", etc) because we live in a populist age where facts are outshouted by entertainment media headlines, always in the form of a question i.e. IS A GIANT BLACK HOLE GOING TO DEVOUR THE EARTH TOMORROW?! (eventual, post advertisement answer: no).

So John mostly loses after lawyer fees, Boeing loses, the public court system loses, who wins?

The ambulance chasing lawyers trying for a quick buck. Because they deal in volume.

I prey that Boeing takes this all the way and counter sues for legal costs and damages.

[Joe H]

Consider this: John Doe doesn't have a chance of winning in court. His lawyer(s) know this but aren't telling him (probably telling him the opposite). Boeing knows this but they will probably agree to a modest settlement to stop the rumor mill effect (Ex: FOX Breaking News: "Is the Boeing 777 a FLYING DEATHTRAP?! We'll let you know what one man says after this [paid commercial]", etc) because we live in a populist age where facts are outshouted by entertainment media headlines, always in the form of a question i.e. IS A GIANT BLACK HOLE GOING TO DEVOUR THE EARTH TOMORROW?! (eventual, post advertisement answer: no).

So John mostly loses after lawyer fees, Boeing loses, the public court system loses, who wins?

The ambulance chasing lawyers trying for a quick buck. Because they deal in volume.

I prey that Boeing takes this all the way and counter sues for legal costs and damages.

So, my 'guarded switch' boy.... ?? the legal system is at fault ? (Probably partially correct) ... so, you advocate COUNTER SUING ??????
ARE YOU ON DRUGS ????

You are creating the longevity of the system you are complaining about !!!



(ps, I believe all Lawyers are corrupt!)