Originally posted by Gabriel
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Southwest Airlines Nose Gear Collapse at LGA
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Originally posted by Highkeas View Post
This was the first flight these pilots had crewed together on (second cycle). One could speculate that some confusion may have occurred on the handoff. It still doesn't seem to add up though...
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Originally posted by Evan View PostWhere are you getting "10-seconds before touchdown"? .............
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Originally posted by EvanHe's baiting you Brian. He wants to be banned. It's like jihad. What's the best way to deal with jihad martyrs? You martyr them. Everyone wins.
Please martyr this bastard.Last edited by brianw999; 2013-08-07, 17:46.If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !
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For what it's worth, I got this from my dad, who received it from a friend of his who is also in the airline business:
Sent: Monday, 26 August, 2013 20:55
Subject: Southwest Crash
Just passing it on.
Got this from a friend who knew the guy who wrote this:
This in regards to the Laguardia wreck a couple of weeks ago. He’s a former
co-worker of mine.
Just got off the phone with my buddy in the Southwest training dept.
The captain was a... from SFO. She also was number one on the pilots
don't want to fly with list. The FO was on his 2nd trip on that AC. He
was an AirTrans guy they just trained. She did screw up.
Instead of going around, as they teach them when they change commands
on final, she tried to fix a unfixable situation. Anyway, he got some
ground school and a sim ride. She is fired.
They actually do have an “I-don't-want-to-fly-with-this-asshole” list, and
it’s official. I think scheduling maintains it.
Both crew members were knocked unconscious on impact. There was an
American Airlines Pilot on their jump seat. He pulled them out of the
cockpit. Wouldn't you love to hear the last minutes comments on the
voice recorder or have seen the American pilots eyes on that approach.The "keep my tail out of trouble" disclaimer: Though I work in the airline industry, anything I post on here is my own speculation or opinion. Nothing I post is to be construed as "official" information from any air carrier or any other entity.
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Originally posted by snydersnapshots View PostFor what it's worth, I got this from my dad, who received it from a friend of his who is also in the airline business:
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Lovely. Hate to be the guy who is forced to fly with anyone on that list. Um. Could a sudden illness strike the person, eliminating him from the rotation? I've seen any number of people get out of a work situation that has "bad" written all over it. Question on my mind is why can't the airlines deal effectively with pilots who get on those lists? Is the shortage of certified pilots that bad?
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Originally posted by EconomyClass View PostLovely. Hate to be the guy who is forced to fly with anyone on that list. Um. Could a sudden illness strike the person, eliminating him from the rotation? I've seen any number of people get out of a work situation that has "bad" written all over it.
The worst captain I ever flew with had quite a reputation, though I didn't know it--and I'd been with the company for FIVE years. Granted, I'd only been in that particular domicile for about 7 months. He was an @$$h*1e, but we worked together effectively enough that I never felt like safety--at least the safety of the passengers--was a concern. Now his personal safety crossed my mind a couple of times... but not when the airplane was involved.
(BTW: This guy WAS dealt with. After enough complaints the company called him in and they came to the agreement that it was time for him to take his retirement and go).
Originally posted by EconomyClass View PostQuestion on my mind is why can't the airlines deal effectively with pilots who get on those lists? Is the shortage of certified pilots that bad?
So when it comes to the "no fly" list, the airline really can't do anything until actual flying skill or personnel issues become an issue. Flying skill problems generally manifest themselves in training events, so those are usually addressed early in a career. Personnel issues like habitual lateness or no-shows, excessive sick calls, etc, are normally addressed as they become an problem.
[Note about excessive sick calls: I'm not talking about someone who has a legitimate sick issue; I'm talking about the guy who has called in 4 or 5 times in a 90 day period and who, coincidently, commutes and who, coincidentally, has been sick every time the flights he commutes on are full and he couldn't get on. In those cases the company usually demands to see a doctor's note when the guy calls in sick.]
Depending on the size of the airline, the "no-fly" list is handled in different ways. Some may have an official list that is kept, though I've never seen that happen. My company gives first officers the ability to avoid flying with up to 5 captains when they bid their schedules--honestly, as an FO I never had anyone on that list. Often the "no-fly" list is an unpublished list passed among first officers and/or captains and guys will bid away from or trade away trips with certain captains.
If someone has a serious safety issue with another pilot, they can either go to the union's professional standards people or straight to the chief pilot. If the problem becomes a "trend item" then the company has documentation and can take action--either re-training or termination.
At a previous airline I flew for, they hired a lady who had a LOT of time in a 737-200 sim. She did fine in training on the 737-300 (that's all we had). She got through initial operating experience OK, but when she got on line, captains complained about her lack of situational awareness and the fact that she couldn't make the jump from "training" flying to "line" flying (the real world is not always flaps 5 and 170 knots to ten miles and final flaps and target speed at glideslope intercept...). The chief pilot had her fly with EVERY check airman in the company and they all came back with the same conclusion; she was ultimately terminated. You can guess the response: two weeks later her lawyer called the company to file suit for gender discrimination. When he was given the documentation her lawyer told her she didn't have a case and the suit was dropped.
So, in a somewhat "wordy" answer to your question: airlines can and do handle "problem children."Last edited by snydersnapshots; 2013-09-03, 05:14. Reason: Eliminated identifying characteristics of a former employerThe "keep my tail out of trouble" disclaimer: Though I work in the airline industry, anything I post on here is my own speculation or opinion. Nothing I post is to be construed as "official" information from any air carrier or any other entity.
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Originally posted by snydersnapshots View PostIf someone has a serious safety issue with another pilot, they can either go to the union's professional standards people or straight to the chief pilot.
Hell...I might even be on somebody's no-fly list because I'm too good looking!
Just kidding.
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I'm going to get politically incorrect.
Snyder's post uses the word "she"
Given that Aviation used to be HUGELY a man's world, I wonder if AirTran was trying extra hard to keep a skirt in the cockpit lest they progress to a less balanced workforce...
...to the point of poor performance not being addressed as it would with a guy.
(by the way, the source of Snyder's post is beautiful and I did notice)...
Of course, the more I think about the source and the content, I'm wondering if Snyder was just trying to add some old fashioned levity to the thread.Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
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Originally posted by 3WE View PostI'm going to get politically incorrect.
Snyder's post uses the word "she"
Given that Aviation used to be HUGELY a man's world, I wonder if AirTran was trying extra hard to keep a skirt in the cockpit lest they progress to a less balanced workforce...
...to the point of poor performance not being addressed as it would with a guy.
(by the way, the source of Snyder's post is beautiful and I did notice)...
Of course, the more I think about the source and the content, I'm wondering if Snyder was just trying to add some old fashioned levity to the thread.
So I feel sympathy for passengers who are trapped in a plane flown by a personality problem that gets away with it due to company politics. With the safety of hundreds at stake, politics should have no place. But that's naive to think.
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Originally posted by 3WE View PostI'm going to get politically incorrect.
Snyder's post uses the word "she"
Given that Aviation used to be HUGELY a man's world, I wonder if AirTran was trying extra hard to keep a skirt in the cockpit lest they progress to a less balanced workforce...
Maybe on Loganair.
To your point, I'm willing to bet hiring quotas and the likelihood of discrimination accusations make it harder to pry a woman out of the cockpit. Mostly that's a good thing, considering the low ceiling female pilots operate in, but safety has to always trump political correctness.
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Originally posted by 3WE View PostI'm going to get politically incorrect.
Snyder's post uses the word "she"
Given that Aviation used to be HUGELY a man's world, I wonder if AirTran was trying extra hard to keep a skirt in the cockpit lest they progress to a less balanced workforce...
...to the point of poor performance not being addressed as it would with a guy.
Originally posted by 3WE View Post(by the way, the source of Snyder's post is beautiful and I did notice)...
Of course, the more I think about the source and the content, I'm wondering if Snyder was just trying to add some old fashioned levity to the thread.The "keep my tail out of trouble" disclaimer: Though I work in the airline industry, anything I post on here is my own speculation or opinion. Nothing I post is to be construed as "official" information from any air carrier or any other entity.
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