If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Malaysia Airlines Loses Contact With 777 en Route to Beijing
KAL-007 had a flight plan filed too. The aircraft was south korean, a friendly country.
The flight plan notwithstanding, KAL007 had strayed hundreds of miles off course and South Korea was (is) a US ally and definitely NOT a friendly country for the Soviet Union. Also, the USA were conducting intelligence-gathering flights in the same are where KAL007 was shot down, so there is also the aspect of a mistaken identity.
Negated by the radar track which, at this point, is the only clue they even have that has not been proven to be rumor or speculation.
That we know of. After the feeding frenzy that ensued from ACARS data leaked after AF-447, I would expect the authorities and/or the operator to have placed restrictions on this information reaching the public. They may know a great deal more than they are revealing right now.
Gabriel - I understand that. My question still is: Was there primary radar coverage AT ALL of the area where MH370 vanished?
Unfortunately, to 98,5% of the public - and probably 99,99% of mainstream journalists - radar is radar. So "the flight vanished from radar" can mean two things: a) ALL contact is lost; b) SSR contact is lost, but primary radar contact still exists.
At this point, I am beginning to suspect, that there wasn't any primary radar covering the flight when it vanished.
That we know of. After the feeding frenzy that ensued from ACARS data leaked after AF-447, I would expect the authorities and/or the operator to have placed restrictions on this information reaching the public. They may know a great deal more than they are revealing right now.
Not likely. If they did get an ACARS message, where's the harm in saying "We received A last ACARS message from location ABC at XYZ o'clock, withholding details pening further investigation."?
The way this search is conducted suggests that they in fact DO NOT know a great deal more, or the plane would already have been found.
That we know of. After the feeding frenzy that ensued from ACARS data leaked after AF-447, I would expect the authorities and/or the operator to have placed restrictions on this information reaching the public. They may know a great deal more than they are revealing right now.
They specifically and officially informed that there had been no ACARS data collected by the airline that was indicative of any failure.
Ambiguous as always:
- Did the airline collect ACARS data that was NOT indicative of a failure (such as reaching TOC)?
- Does the airline collect ACARS data to begin with?
- May there be data sent by the airplane but not collected by the airline that can be retrived from somewhere else (like the satellite ground stations)?
AF (Air France)
ACARS (a system where the plane sends event-based data to the airline via satellite datalink)
TOC (Top Of Climb)
RADAR (RAdio Detection And Ranging, a sort of SONAR -replace "RAdio" with "SOund"- that uses electromagnetic waves instead of pressure waves).
(you are welcome Brian)
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
That we know of. After the feeding frenzy that ensued from ACARS data leaked after AF-447, I would expect the authorities and/or the operator to have placed restrictions on this information reaching the public. They may know a great deal more than they are revealing right now.
Being a healthy skeptic, this is from 2 articles:
Aviation Herald "Aviation sources in China report that radar data suggest a steep and sudden descent of the aircraft, during which the track of the aircraft changed from 024 degrees to 333 degrees. The aircraft was estimated to contact Ho Chi Minh Control Center (Vietnam) at 01:20L, but contact was never established."
BBC "Air force chief Rodzali Daud said the investigation was now focusing on a recording of radar signals that showed there was a "possibility" the aircraft had turned back from its flight path."
Rodzali Daud is the Malaysian Air Force Chief who is, one would suspect, best positioned to have radar data for this area. He is, at best, vague and did not discuss a rapid descent during this press conference.
Who are the mysterious "sources in China" who suggest rapid descent? Maybe this is true or maybe it's another media shortcut, rumor, or worse?
Aviation Herald "Aviation sources in China report that radar data suggest a steep and sudden descent of the aircraft, during which the track of the aircraft changed from 024 degrees to 333 degrees. The aircraft was estimated to contact Ho Chi Minh Control Center (Vietnam) at 01:20L, but contact was never established."
BBC "Air force chief Rodzali Daud said the investigation was now focusing on a recording of radar signals that showed there was a "possibility" the aircraft had turned back from its flight path."
Rodzali Daud is the Malaysian Air Force Chief who is, one would suspect, best positioned to have radar data for this area. He is, at best, vague and did not discuss a rapid descent during this press conference.
Who are the mysterious "sources in China" who suggest rapid descent? Maybe this is true or maybe it's another media shortcut, rumor, or worse?
This is RADAR. Evan was asking about ACARS.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
They speclly and officially informed that there had been no ACARS data collected by the airline that was indicative of any failure.
Ambiguous as always:
- Did the airline collect ACARS data that was NOT indicative of a failure (such as reaching TOC)?
- Does the airline collect ACARS data to begin with?
- May there be data sent by the airplane but not collected by the airline that can be retrived from somewhere else (like the satellite ground stations)?
Malaysian Air has confirmed "the plane has ACARS" with typical 1 minute collection at 29,000 ft limit.
Malaysian civil aviation chief Azharuddin Abdul Rahman, whose agency is leading a multinational effort to find the Boeing 777, said more than 1,000 people and at least 34 planes and 40 ships were searching a radius of 100 nautical miles (115 miles; 185 kilometers) around the last known location of Flight MH370. No signal has been detected since early Saturday morning, when the plane was at its cruising altitude and showed no sign of trouble.Azharuddin said the search includes northern parts of the Malacca Strait, on the opposite side of the Malay Peninsula and far west of the plane's last known location. Azharuddin would not explain why crews were searching there, saying, "There are some things that I can tell you and some things that I can't."
If it had exploded midair along its normal flight path, "we would have found it by now."
Azharuddin would not explain why crews were searching there, saying, "There are some things that I can tell you and some things that I can't."
Hehe, as I've said: Why are they searching there? They are not telling something.
And you know what? I think that's correct. As long as the information is temporarily withheld for operative/security/etc. concerns (and not for conspirative initiatives), I am ok with a "there are things that I can't disclose by now".
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
I this is true the case gets even more mysterious ...
"I'm absolutely confident that we will find this airplane," Captain John M. Cox, who spent 25 years flying for US Airways and is now CEO of Safety Operating Systems, said on Monday. The modern pace of communications, where GPS features in our cars and smartphones tell us our location at any given moment, has set unreal expectations. "This is not the first time we have had to wait a few days to find the wreckage."
Based on what he's heard, Captain Cox believes it's increasingly clear that the plane somehow veered from its normal flight path. He said that after the plane disappeared from radar, it must have been "intact and flew for some period of time. Beyond that, it's all speculation." If it had exploded midair along its normal flight path, "we would have found it by now."
We process personal data about users of our site, through the use of cookies and other technologies, to deliver our services, personalize advertising, and to analyze site activity. We may share certain information about our users with our advertising and analytics partners. For additional details, refer to our Privacy Policy.
By clicking "I AGREE" below, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our personal data processing and cookie practices as described therein. You also acknowledge that this forum may be hosted outside your country and you consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the country where this forum is hosted.
Tweet
Comment