When the fun stops, you stop

[akerosid]

I've been on JP.net for nearly twenty years and I've learned a lot and enjoyed it immensely. I now have over 6,600 photos and I'm proud of them, but I have found, in recent months, that I'm enjoying JP.net less and less. I am finding it far less fun and far more stressful than it used to be: longer waits (which I don't mind), more inconsistent screening, hoping that a particular screener doesn't end up screening your photos etc. It's not what it used to be. I'm not leaving, but I am going to scale back my submissions. It's just not as enjoyable as it used to be.

Today, for example, I had 13 photos screened; every single one got rejected; some understandable ones, but mostly "Bad/over post-processing" - and that alone. And with 6,600+ photos on JP.net, I probably know a bit about processing. And there is nothing I can do with that, other than appeal it. It's little things like that, that really dampen my enthusiasm and enjoyment.

I've now set up a Flicker account, which will be the home of my online photos for the most part, going forward. I'll still be submitting a few shots here and there, but it's just not what it used to be and I really would like to see it change back. It used to be said that A.net looked for reasons to reject, while JP.net looked for reasons to accept, but now, I feel that this site has gone to the A.net level and it is really is compromising the enjoyment of this site. It really isn't what it used to be.

[OCFLT_OMGcat]

Exactly the same reason for me to delete my account and to move to another website.

[DSC]

I've been on JP.net for nearly twenty years and I've learned a lot and enjoyed it immensely. I now have over 6,600 photos and I'm proud of them, but I have found, in recent months, that I'm enjoying JP.net less and less. I am finding it far less fun and far more stressful than it used to be: longer waits (which I don't mind), more inconsistent screening, hoping that a particular screener doesn't end up screening your photos etc. It's not what it used to be. I'm not leaving, but I am going to scale back my submissions. It's just not as enjoyable as it used to be.

Today, for example, I had 13 photos screened; every single one got rejected; some understandable ones, but mostly "Bad/over post-processing" - and that alone. And with 6,600+ photos on JP.net, I probably know a bit about processing. And there is nothing I can do with that, other than appeal it. It's little things like that, that really dampen my enthusiasm and enjoyment.

I've now set up a Flicker account, which will be the home of my online photos for the most part, going forward. I'll still be submitting a few shots here and there, but it's just not what it used to be and I really would like to see it change back. It used to be said that A.net looked for reasons to reject, while JP.net looked for reasons to accept, but now, I feel that this site has gone to the A.net level and it is really is compromising the enjoyment of this site. It really isn't what it used to be.

100% with you

[X Pan]

Well said!

It does feel like nowadays I am sort of being forced to just upload the boring side on 'passport photo' shots (and that's why I stopped uploading to A.net). Anything non-regular not really worth trying given the high chance of rejection, the long wait time and the potential of losing a slot.

Just an example, had a very tricky shot (at night, very dark and in rain), got a bad process rejection today. Ironically the same shot got accepted in another site yesterday, and have generated 5x more hits and views compares to my regular side on shot. Will I appeal it? Probably not as if one is trying to find a reason to reject it then there are so many flaws with that shot, however that's why the shot was not so boring in the first place..

[CARBONOX CN]

TBH there is a saying that getting photos accepted on JP is harder than that of A.net or whatever you call it. JP is a great site but still has a lot to improve, like the screening time or screening itself etc.
Every post like this one should be a goal for JP crew to improve, not to ignore.

[dlowwa]

I've been on JP.net for nearly twenty years and I've learned a lot and enjoyed it immensely. I now have over 6,600 photos and I'm proud of them, but I have found, in recent months, that I'm enjoying JP.net less and less. I am finding it far less fun and far more stressful than it used to be: longer waits (which I don't mind), more inconsistent screening, hoping that a particular screener doesn't end up screening your photos etc. It's not what it used to be. I'm not leaving, but I am going to scale back my submissions. It's just not as enjoyable as it used to be.

Today, for example, I had 13 photos screened; every single one got rejected; some understandable ones, but mostly "Bad/over post-processing" - and that alone.

First, I can understand your frustration at having so many rejections. Curious to see what might have been the reasons, I went and checked your recently rejected images and can shed a little more light (for everyone else reading as well).

Your assertion that 'most' of your rejections were due to bad processing alone is false. You have had definitely more than 13 rejections in the past 24 hours (not sure exactly how many when you posted this), but even if we count 13, only four of them were for processing alone. Most were a combination of contrast/dust spots and/or processing. I would be happy to post some of these rejections to comment on, and I think other experienced photographers here would see that this recent batch of rejections was not at all unjustified.

And there is nothing I can do with that, other than appeal it.

This is also not true. The processing forum exists exactly for the reason that you can post for advice before appealing to try and understand if the rejection was valid, and how the issue can be addressed. If you choose to appeal without making that effort, that's of course your decision, but please don't say 'there's nothing I can do".

What follows is only my opinion, based observations but... having screened at Anet for ~5 years and here for the past ~8, I can agree the standards here over that time have slowly crept up to being nearly equivalent of what Anet was. However, the ratio of images we accept to what we reject hasn't really changed over that time. In fact, it might be even be higher than before (as an example, 66% of images were accepted today). What I think has really happened is that the quality of the submissions has generally improved to keep up with the (slightly) higher standards, so overall we're still accepting images at the same rate.

[akerosid]

I should probably have been a bit clearer; the ones that have a specific reasons, e.g. dust spots or contrast, I can deal with, but "Bad/over post processing" is just a very difficult one to deal with it, as it doesn't really help to identify what exactly is wrong with the photo ; I will take your advice and post one of the rejections and see what comes of it.

[Felipe Garcia]

I should probably have been a bit clearer; the ones that have a specific reasons, e.g. dust spots or contrast, I can deal with, but "Bad/over post processing" is just a very difficult one to deal with it, as it doesn't really help to identify what exactly is wrong with the photo ; I will take your advice and post one of the rejections and see what comes of it.

Correct. We often try to add a remark regarding the rejection, unfortunately, it's not always possible. Same thing with contrast, when it's a weather/light issue.

The reality is that some editing tools have gotten too complex and powerful, so they require a lot of care when using, as it doesn't take much for halos, artifacts or weird textures to start appearing.

The vast majority of overproc rejections (not specific to you) have to do with haloes, some are even noticeable in the thumbnail.

And believe me, it's not a nice feeling to reject a whole batch of photos because of common issues (they're all too soft, too overprocessed, too compressed, etc), sometimes when they're otherwise flawless.

[akerosid]

Well, another batch through … 6 out of 13 (I think) accepted. Better than yesterday and thankfully, the rejections are easy enough to fix (dark/underexposed).

I am sorry if my first comment above came across as a bit "cranky", but I certainly was. As I said, I really do enjoy JP.net, and I do get very upset when a large batch of photos are rejected. To be honest, I think my old D5300 is nearly at the end of its life and that may be a factor; I had it cleaned about a month and I am also wondering if the cleaning process might have left streaks on internal screen, which could have resulted in some of the damage to photos? Anyway, I did also notice that none of today's photos came out with "Bad post-processing" as an issue, which is encouraging!

[bgkicks49]

Well, another batch through … 6 out of 13 (I think) accepted. Better than yesterday and thankfully, the rejections are easy enough to fix (dark/underexposed).

I am sorry if my first comment above came across as a bit "cranky", but I certainly was. As I said, I really do enjoy JP.net, and I do get very upset when a large batch of photos are rejected. To be honest, I think my old D5300 is nearly at the end of its life and that may be a factor; I had it cleaned about a month and I am also wondering if the cleaning process might have left streaks on internal screen, which could have resulted in some of the damage to photos? Anyway, I did also notice that none of today's photos came out with "Bad post-processing" as an issue, which is encouraging!

First off i want to say that frustration is an unfortunate part of the process, it helps us back on the right track. I commend you for voicing your concerns and frustrations in a calm and professional manner. Like Felipe said, we try to leave comments to help lead the photog to have a better idea of what they need to do next time but sometimes hard to leave comments for all photos especially screening large volumes per day. And as Dana said, the forum is for everyone to use if they have any questions or concerns for their photos to get pre-screened.

[dlowwa]

Well, another batch through … 6 out of 13 (I think) accepted. Better than yesterday and thankfully, the rejections are easy enough to fix (dark/underexposed).

I am sorry if my first comment above came across as a bit "cranky", but I certainly was. As I said, I really do enjoy JP.net, and I do get very upset when a large batch of photos are rejected. To be honest, I think my old D5300 is nearly at the end of its life and that may be a factor; I had it cleaned about a month and I am also wondering if the cleaning process might have left streaks on internal screen, which could have resulted in some of the damage to photos? Anyway, I did also notice that none of today's photos came out with "Bad post-processing" as an issue, which is encouraging!

You're allowed to be cranky.. and to say so

Not sure if what was seen on your rejections could be a result of poor sensor cleaning as the banding looked pretty uniform, but I guess it could be possible.

[zomeu]

I agree with the fact that rejections help us to make better and to progress.
But...
The first problem is that the screening standards will end up one day making the entire planet believe that planes are not allowed to fly when there is a cloud in the sky and can fly only with a bright sun in their 3/4 front.
Could the screeners realize that it is not true and that daylight is also that of some cloudy skies and that a photo in such a light is not necessarily "dark and too little contrast", but just natural and taken by an overcast day and that it doesn't make it a bad image. Diversity is a wealth.
The second problem is that JP provides powerful tools to verify the compliance of photos with the editing rules and that in the end perfectly balanced photos, presenting impeccable histograms and conforming composition are rejected because "yes, but it looks like this or that". Only technical standards, if necessary more demanding, should be taken into account, otherwise we can never know if a "good" photo will be rejected or not. It's not a question of pride or frustration, but a question of work put in for nothing and rejected for no objective reason.

[Alex - Spot-This !]

I agree with the fact that rejections help us to make better and to progress.
But...
The first problem is that the screening standards will end up one day making the entire planet believe that planes are not allowed to fly when there is a cloud in the sky and can fly only with a bright sun in their 3/4 front.
Could the screeners realize that it is not true and that daylight is also that of some cloudy skies and that a photo in such a light is not necessarily "dark and too little contrast", but just natural and taken by an overcast day and that it doesn't make it a bad image. Diversity is a wealth.
The second problem is that JP provides powerful tools to verify the compliance of photos with the editing rules and that in the end perfectly balanced photos, presenting impeccable histograms and conforming composition are rejected because "yes, but it looks like this or that". Only technical standards, if necessary more demanding, should be taken into account, otherwise we can never know if a "good" photo will be rejected or not. It's not a question of pride or frustration, but a question of work put in for nothing and rejected for no objective reason.

Hi,
Thank you for your input

About the bad weather debate, there's nothing new there. That debate was already around when I joined the crew in 2006 and basically here's our point.
A bad light day would make your image dull, even with a good editing. Dull images are less attractive and what would be JP benefit to accept less attractive image when we usually have dozens of other nicely lit images of the same reg ? Still please remember we do accept bad weather images but only if that weather helps making something attractive in the image.
You mention diversity but maybe diversity is more about new angles, backgrounds, crops, play with perpective don't you think ? it's not really about accepting badly lit images. Jp screeners are all photographers, we are on the same boat and we just need to accept it's part of the hobby.

Might I suggest a solution to the contrast rejections ? Being more selective. By being more selective you would improve your acceptance ratio, get less rejection (frustration) and most of all improve your portfolio, which also makes JP look better. It's all benefits, the only negative point would be to have less uploads but is it really that bad ? I'm not so sure.

Now about your second point, let me share a few general thoughts about rejections.
I do strongly believe rejections are probably the best way to improve our photography/editing. Let me explain why. By no ways I'm saying JP crews are better photographers but.... we do have a crew with a lot of experience. Some have screened hundreds of thousands of images. They all have a very high acceptance ratio which means they do have a really good knowledge of JP standarts, they have been on Jp for years and so on.... we really tried to select the best available people. So even after 20 years of uploading, I still get my share of rejections. And on 99% of the time, I realize that I had missed something, done something wrong and thanks to that rejection, I have probably learned something new. And yes, I really hope to keep learning and I do believe JP offers the right panel of people to help us all to become better photographers.
I think that if people are willing to learn, we do also offer the right service via the forum. Dana and a few other crew have been doing a tremendous job trying to help the community. A big thank you to the uploaders when they are posting there with a positive attitude. One of my best friend, fellow JP photographers never posted in the forum but he always tells me that he reads everything and has learned a ton from there. And we're talking about a guy with 7000 pics in database and a 80% acceptance ratio..... It does take a bit of energy to post and read, but as JP crew is ready to make that effort, we really hope users could also do it
So yes sometimes we don't immediately understand the reason for a rejection. After checking if screeners didn't leave a message (we try to do our best to leave messages but only to realize on appeals that a lot of people don't read them...), you might decide it was rejected for no objective reasons which I agree leads to frustration or... maybe you can try to post the rejection in the forum and by taking such a step, there's a really strong chance you might learn something, improve your photography, get less rejection and, help the community who has read your posts, again benefits for all.

I hope my post offers a few positive solutions and I also believe that by opening the debate we are taking a positive step to make JP better.

Finally please do realize that JP crew members are just photographers like you all. The girls and guys of the crew just happen to give their time to the JP community and the website simply wouldn't exist without them. But at the end of the day we are all enjoying the same hobby so let's all try to remain positive and hopefully we'll all meet one day along a fence somewhere and I'll gladly share more thoughts, beers are on me...


Thanks again
cheers
Alex