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Mordant - Prescreening and Postscreening advice

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  • Mordant - Prescreening and Postscreening advice

    Howdy, I will keep this simple.

    I've been really discouraged lately, a lot of my photos have been rejected, and it's always for something different. My photo editing skills are limited, I just like taking photos. Here is an example of an attempted edit:

    JetPhotos.com is the biggest database of aviation photographs with over 5 million screened photos online!

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	180.7 KB ID:	1170787

    To me it looks really bright, but it was rejected only for it being oversharpened(?). I edited it this way as my photos were being rejected for not enough saturation and too low brightness. I guess I got those right on this image, but even if I didn't edit the sharpness at all it was rejected for the sharpness anyway? My appeal was denied with the note that the way I downscaled the image created an effect similar to oversharpening. I don't have photoshop or lightroom or anything like that, and I shoot in 4k. Downscaling to 1280 width is obviously a problem here, I just don't know what I am supoposed to do. I've tried many services(Pixlr, straight type conversions with cloudconvert, etc) but theres always something wrong, typically with the compression/downscaling/artefacts. I've submitted around 5 images and all have been rejected so I am really discouraged.

    I suppose a really simple question is, how am I supposed to avoid JPG compression artefacts if I am forced to compress my images to fit the rule of 1280 width(equals ~800 height with an aspect ratio of around 2:1)? I shoot natively in 4k.

    Heres another example, this one I understand and agree with the rejection, but can't seem to understand how to fix it:

    JetPhotos.com is the biggest database of aviation photographs with over 5 million screened photos online!

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	141.8 KB ID:	1170788

    It's a new registration, so I got my rejection quickly. I didn't really mess with any settings, I just cropped it and jpg'ed it. Obviously I should've done something, but I am at the point that I need to ask for help. Before I embarrass myself further, can someone please help me out? Literally any tips would be greatly appreciated. I love seeing photos on JP, but this is really disheartening that I can't edit a photo well enough...

    If anyone wants the OG unedited photos, just let me know!

    Thanks so much for all the help,
    Mordant​

  • #2
    Originally posted by Mordant View Post
    Howdy, I will keep this simple.

    I've been really discouraged lately, a lot of my photos have been rejected, and it's always for something different. My photo editing skills are limited, I just like taking photos. Here is an example of an attempted edit:

    JetPhotos.com is the biggest database of aviation photographs with over 5 million screened photos online!


    To me it looks really bright, but it was rejected only for it being oversharpened(?). I edited it this way as my photos were being rejected for not enough saturation and too low brightness. I guess I got those right on this image, but even if I didn't edit the sharpness at all it was rejected for the sharpness anyway? My appeal was denied with the note that the way I downscaled the image created an effect similar to oversharpening. I don't have photoshop or lightroom or anything like that, and I shoot in 4k. Downscaling to 1280 width is obviously a problem here, I just don't know what I am supoposed to do. I've tried many services(Pixlr, straight type conversions with cloudconvert, etc) but theres always something wrong, typically with the compression/downscaling/artefacts. I've submitted around 5 images and all have been rejected so I am really discouraged.

    I suppose a really simple question is, how am I supposed to avoid JPG compression artefacts if I am forced to compress my images to fit the rule of 1280 width(equals ~800 height with an aspect ratio of around 2:1)? I shoot natively in 4k.

    Heres another example, this one I understand and agree with the rejection, but can't seem to understand how to fix it:

    JetPhotos.com is the biggest database of aviation photographs with over 5 million screened photos online!


    It's a new registration, so I got my rejection quickly. I didn't really mess with any settings, I just cropped it and jpg'ed it. Obviously I should've done something, but I am at the point that I need to ask for help. Before I embarrass myself further, can someone please help me out? Literally any tips would be greatly appreciated. I love seeing photos on JP, but this is really disheartening that I can't edit a photo well enough...

    If anyone wants the OG unedited photos, just let me know!
    Won't comment on the first image since you've already appealed it, but the second looks like the quality might not be there, regardless of editing. I would hazard a guess the poor quality is a result of the amount of cropping necessary in combination with trying to get/expecting too much from your equipment. This latter point is apparent from the amount of purple fringing visible in the image, which is typically found in lower-end gear (lens in this case) or when using at its extreme parameters (maximum zoom, wide open aperture, etc.). Editing won't really help when that's the case.

    You can send me the original if you like, but almost certainly it would just be confirming my suspicion.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by dlowwa View Post

      Won't comment on the first image since you've already appealed it, but the second looks like the quality might not be there, regardless of editing. I would hazard a guess the poor quality is a result of the amount of cropping necessary in combination with trying to get/expecting too much from your equipment. This latter point is apparent from the amount of purple fringing visible in the image, which is typically found in lower-end gear (lens in this case) or when using at its extreme parameters (maximum zoom, wide open aperture, etc.). Editing won't really help when that's the case.

      You can send me the original if you like, but almost certainly it would just be confirming my suspicion.
      That makes sense about pushing the limits, and I’ll see if I can note my rough zoom levels when I take more photos. I still think I can get better photos with what I have, I just need to know what habits to avoid so I don’t get the purple fringing. It sounds like I need to stay middle of the road on zoom at a level where I don’t have to crop a lot. I can definitely start working on that in the future.

      Is there anything you would still note about the first? I appealed and it was rejected, but I still want to learn from it. The bit about how it was downscaled creating a sharpening effect was from the appeal. They clarified that even if it wasn’t direct sharpening, the downscaling still gave a sharpened effect. I personally don’t see the effect, and that’s one of the things I’m trying to understand; what in specific do I look for to avoid a sharpened look?

      If I showed a new photo, edited to the best of my ability, would you be willing to try and see what I may be missing?

      Thanks a bunch,
      Mordant

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Mordant View Post

        That makes sense about pushing the limits, and I’ll see if I can note my rough zoom levels when I take more photos. I still think I can get better photos with what I have, I just need to know what habits to avoid so I don’t get the purple fringing. It sounds like I need to stay middle of the road on zoom at a level where I don’t have to crop a lot. I can definitely start working on that in the future.

        Is there anything you would still note about the first? I appealed and it was rejected, but I still want to learn from it. The bit about how it was downscaled creating a sharpening effect was from the appeal. They clarified that even if it wasn’t direct sharpening, the downscaling still gave a sharpened effect. I personally don’t see the effect, and that’s one of the things I’m trying to understand; what in specific do I look for to avoid a sharpened look?

        If I showed a new photo, edited to the best of my ability, would you be willing to try and see what I may be missing?
        You're free to post new photos here for editing advice, certainly.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dlowwa View Post

          You're free to post new photos here for editing advice, certainly.
          https://files.catbox.moe/fyjfqi.JPG Click image for larger version

Name:	jhxyri.jpg
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ID:	1170969

          This isn't the best photo I have, just the first one I saw. No edits outside of cropping it square to avoid file size and image size constraints. Just got home from work, so apologies for the late response.

          I definitely see the purple fringe you mentioned in this photo. I'll double check the filter thing on my lens, but it's a 55m-300mm that came with my Rebel EOS T3i. It's a hand-me-down and it seems to work well and is relatively high quality.

          It seems the filter on my lens is a "Multi-Coated High Definition Glass UV 58mm Japan Optics 0720612"(sorry, just visually copy-pasted what's on the side)

          Wouldn't be surprised if that's the problem, given it says UV. I'm not sure why it's on there, I'll ask who I got it from as to why they had it there. I'll shoot some photos later this week without it(assuming I can) and maybe that fixes my sharpening issue.

          Aside from rotating the image and making it less cloudy(?), what other post-processing would you do? I'm hesitant to do much because I don't know what modifications count as acceptable or not(I read the submission rules and looked at the examples, still not really grasping it).

          Thanks again for the response!
          Mordant

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mordant View Post
            This isn't the best photo I have, just the first one I saw. No edits outside of cropping it square to avoid file size and image size constraints. Just got home from work, so apologies for the late response.

            I definitely see the purple fringe you mentioned in this photo. I'll double check the filter thing on my lens, but it's a 55m-300mm that came with my Rebel EOS T3i. It's a hand-me-down and it seems to work well and is relatively high quality.

            It seems the filter on my lens is a "Multi-Coated High Definition Glass UV 58mm Japan Optics 0720612"(sorry, just visually copy-pasted what's on the side)

            Wouldn't be surprised if that's the problem, given it says UV. I'm not sure why it's on there, I'll ask who I got it from as to why they had it there. I'll shoot some photos later this week without it(assuming I can) and maybe that fixes my sharpening issue.

            Aside from rotating the image and making it less cloudy(?), what other post-processing would you do? I'm hesitant to do much because I don't know what modifications count as acceptable or not(I read the submission rules and looked at the examples, still not really grasping it).
            Filter on the lens is irrelevant. Main issue here is the conditions. Aircraft is badly heat hazed. There is no way to fix this in editing.

            The strong purple fringing bordering the blown out areas and the overall softness are common on lower-end lenses but can usually be controlled easily enough with software/editing.

            You'll need to either pick better conditions or get much closer to the subject..or both. Light is quite harsh as well and nearly backlit, but also made irrelevant by the bad heat haze.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by dlowwa View Post

              Filter on the lens is irrelevant. Main issue here is the conditions. Aircraft is badly heat hazed. There is no way to fix this in editing.

              You'll need to either pick better conditions or get much closer to the subject..or both. Light is quite harsh as well and nearly backlit, but also made irrelevant by the bad heat haze.
              That's the main reason I hadn't even tried editing it, just didn't seem like the right photo.

              This was taken on the ramp directly adjacent to the runway(KBCB for reference) so I get the heat effects but not the proximity. IIRC I was just barely at my full zoom at 300mm on my lens.

              The strong purple fringing bordering the blown out areas and the overall softness are common on lower-end lenses but can usually be controlled easily enough with software/editing.
              Can you point me to a source where I can learn how to do that? From what you're telling me, it seems like I'll have to deal with it for all my shots. I tried tweaking colors and such over the past little bit as well as sharpening but I can't quite get it right.

              More of a general question, but what constitutes the lens as low or high end? Is it manufacturer or better reflected with price? I thought my lens was pretty good, but again this is a new hobby for me...

              One last thing, and I understand if it's camera specific, but I have my photos being saved at the highest level of detail on my camera. Would it be better to shoot at the 1280 width to avoid the conversion later?

              Thanks for the insight again,
              Mordant

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mordant View Post
                This was taken on the ramp directly adjacent to the runway(KBCB for reference) so I get the heat effects but not the proximity. IIRC I was just barely at my full zoom at 300mm on my lens.
                Proximity = you need to physically get closer. Less air between you and the subject, less chance for distortion. Higher focal length (more zoom) will not help.

                Originally posted by Mordant View Post
                Can you point me to a source where I can learn how to do that? From what you're telling me, it seems like I'll have to deal with it for all my shots. I tried tweaking colors and such over the past little bit as well as sharpening but I can't quite get it right.
                Most editing software will have that function included, but where exactly would depend on which software you're using. For me, I remove any fringing/CA when converting from RAW to jpeg in ACR.

                Originally posted by Mordant View Post
                More of a general question, but what constitutes the lens as low or high end? Is it manufacturer or better reflected with price? I thought my lens was pretty good, but again this is a new hobby for me...
                These days low end would be in the hundreds of $, high end in the thousands. Do some research to find which lens balances quality/cost best for you and your needs.

                Originally posted by Mordant View Post
                One last thing, and I understand if it's camera specific, but I have my photos being saved at the highest level of detail on my camera. Would it be better to shoot at the 1280 width to avoid the conversion later?
                Highest level would mean shooting in RAW and converting to jpeg later. If you trust your camera to get exposure/white balance/etc.. correct (these are more difficult to fix after the fact), then shooting full-sized jpegs is the next best bet.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by dlowwa View Post

                  Proximity = you need to physically get closer. Less air between you and the subject, less chance for distortion. Higher focal length (more zoom) will not help.
                  I understand, I was saying that I was really close to begin with so I wasn't understanding how that could be an issue. I was <500m away from it, I just was wondering if anything else could was an issue. I definitely know that closer is better, no doubt. Another thing is I mistyped my lens, its a 75mm-200mm so I apologize.

                  Most editing software will have that function included, but where exactly would depend on which software you're using. For me, I remove any fringing/CA when converting from RAW to jpeg in ACR.
                  That's perfect. I'll get to it!

                  Highest level would mean shooting in RAW and converting to jpeg later. If you trust your camera to get exposure/white balance/etc.. correct (these are more difficult to fix after the fact), then shooting full-sized jpegs is the next best bet.
                  Sweet, that's perfect. I can shoot in RAW and see if that helps. I was shooting in JPG, thought that would make things easier

                  Comment

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