How to Lose your Best Customers. or, F&$% Off AA

[TeeVee]

I do agree with this. Southwest (and other airlines, save for a few like Allegiant and Spirit) cover everything in the ticket price, regardless of whether or not you want it. But here's the deal - on many occasions, I have searched pricing for flights and while it is true now that many a time, Southwest's fares are just about as high as the others' fares (in some cases a bit higher), the others charge $15-$25 for the first checked bag, pretty much eliminating the price difference. So unless you're not checking bags, and wanting to save as much as possible (and not fly NK or G4) Southwest still wins out in my books. And coupled with its efficient service and and freindly crews (and a no-nonsense attitude), I wouldn't think twice about flying it, even if it meant paying a bit higher fare in the end.

this was never about bag fees, which are cheap enough, it's about change fees, which have now reached the level of exceeding the cost of the ticket. there is no justification, especially when an airline allows you to do the change yourself online.

[Gabriel]

The airline I usually fly has 3 fares for economy, each with different change/no show policies (at a charge, for free, etc...).
In the worst case, the charge is low compared to the price of the ticket.
The trick is that the most economic fares are the first to sell out.

So, for example, if you bought a ticket in the lowest fare and want to change it for another flight on short notice, you won't find the lowest fare available. Hence, other than the charge for change, you will have to pay the difference between fares. And since the upper fare is about twice the lowest one, add the charges and you end paying for the change more than for the ticket itself.

But not more (or much more, just the charges) than if you had no ticket and decided to buy one at that moment.

I don't know if the above applies to what happened to you.

[TeeVee]

not to me, my sister.

aa works like this: buy ANY discounted fare in ANY class and you will pay change fees PLUS fare difference. my sister bought a very expensive but still discounted ticket for $443 (LGA-MIA). on the return she had to change her itinerary due to an accident. AA wanted to charge her a $200 change fee plus a fare difference of $329--on the return.

pathetic if that is what they have to do to make money. i'd rather deal with drug dealers.

[Gabriel]

not to me, my sister.

aa works like this: buy ANY discounted fare in ANY class and you will pay change fees PLUS fare difference. my sister bought a very expensive but still discounted ticket for $443 (LGA-MIA). on the return she had to change her itinerary due to an accident. AA wanted to charge her a $200 change fee plus a fare difference of $329--on the return.

If at that moment you wanted to buy a "brand new" ticket for that "new" flight for less than $443+$329=$772, would you have been able?

[ConcordeBoy]

a very expensive but still discounted ticket for $443 (LGA-MIA).

See? Perfect example!

How do you conclude a $443 LGA-MIA to be "very expensive," when the 2013 average coach airfare for that segment is $371.16?? (source, RITA BTS)

For the sake of comparison, the 1995 average airfare on that route was an inflation-adjusted $514.72! (id)

The fiscally-real price has gone DOWN more than $140 in nearly a 20yr span, and yet you're sitting here whining about "very expensive"!!

**************
Do you see now why I've been saying that "your perception = here" and "reality = over there"??

Do you? If not, then scroll up and review.

If at that moment you wanted to buy a "brand new" ticket for that "new" flight for less than $443+$329=$772, would you have been able?

Hmm, I see where you're going with this. Despite this person not being the subject, I'm interested to hear the answer.

[TeeVee]

If at that moment you wanted to buy a "brand new" ticket for that "new" flight for less than $443+$329=$772, would you have been able?

Gabriel, as i stated earlier in the thread, we simply bought a new one way ticket for $165.

so despite concordeBOY's crap, the pricing is not based on market. it's based on the airlines fucking or at least trying to fuck their customers. the market that day was paying $165. aa tried to screw us out of $364 more dollars than the market price.

[TeeVee]

See? Perfect example!

How do you conclude a $443 LGA-MIA to be "very expensive," when the 2013 average coach airfare for that segment is $371.16?? (source, RITA BTS)

For the sake of comparison, the 1995 average airfare on that route was an inflation-adjusted $514.72! (id)

The fiscally-real price has gone DOWN more than $140 in nearly a 20yr span, and yet you're sitting here whining about "very expensive"!!

**************
Do you see now why I've been saying that "your perception = here" and "reality = over there"??

Do you? If not, then scroll up and review.


Hmm, I see where you're going with this. Despite this person not being the subject, I'm interested to hear the answer.

the annual average includes all of the high season tickets which is a poor comparison to flying mid week during an off peak time. it probably also includes first class since i saw nothing on the site you got your info from stating it only included coach.

also, not sure how you think you figure a 20% surcharge above the average which includes all the peak travel periods is a good deal. oh wait, it's because it wasn't your money.

lastly, perhaps you live your life comparing inflation adjusted prices to 20 years ago. the rest of us don't. tell me something though, what were the change fees in 1995? how much did airlines charge to check a single bag? what were their profits back then?

[ATLcrew]

lastly, perhaps you live your life comparing inflation adjusted prices to 20 years ago. the rest of us don't...

I don't know about spending one's life doing that, but an occasional check may be beneficial. I don't know of a whole lot of other things that have gotten cheaper (or even stayed stagnant) over the past decade or two (or three).

As for poor customer treatment, you may have a point, but how do you explain that the airline with arguably the best service, cleanest and sexiest product in the US airline industry is not only not profitable, but is some $750M in the hole and has so far had exactly one profitable quarter? That airline is Virgin America, and they would have gone under long ago, if it weren't for a certain chap with all that hair.

Meanwhile, a carrier like Spirit is making 8%-13% profits, and makes no secret of a lot of that being due to fees.

[ConcordeBoy]

the pricing is not based on market. it's based on the airlines fucking or at least trying to fuck their customers.

...and THAT folks, is a dissertation-worthy conclusion right there, if ever I saw one! LOL brilliant!

the annual average includes all of the high season tickets which is a poor comparison to flying mid week during an off peak time.

1) the information is there to break it down even further-- you'd still be incorrect.

2) if it's midweek/off-peak that you're whining about, then you're just furthering my case.

not sure how you think you figure a 20% surcharge above the average which includes all the peak travel periods is a good deal. oh wait, it's because it wasn't your money.

Where did I say it was a "good deal"? Show me.

Because what I actually said is it's not "very expensive" by any standard of comparison to the history of price in that area, both near term and long term.

the rest of us don't.

The "rest of you" also have no idea what you're talking about either, in terms of fare expense... that's been made more than clear.

tell me something though, what were the change fees in 1995? how much did airlines charge to check a single bag? what were their profits back then?

Got a MUCH better question: what were their relative costs back then??
Particularly in terms of their two largest expenditures-- fuel and labor.

Go ahead, you first. It'll make my answer all that much more fun.

[ConcordeBoy]

how do you explain that the airline with arguably the best service, cleanest and sexiest product in the US airline industry is not only not profitable, but is some $750M in the hole and has so far had exactly one profitable quarter? That airline is Virgin America, and they would have gone under long ago, if it weren't for a certain chap with all that hair.

Meanwhile, a carrier like Spirit is making 8%-13% profits, and makes no secret of a lot of that being due to fees.

Waiting. This answer oughta be good....

[TeeVee]

I don't know about spending one's life doing that, but an occasional check may be beneficial. I don't know of a whole lot of other things that have gotten cheaper (or even stayed stagnant) over the past decade or two (or three).

As for poor customer treatment, you may have a point, but how do you explain that the airline with arguably the best service, cleanest and sexiest product in the US airline industry is not only not profitable, but is some $750M in the hole and has so far had exactly one profitable quarter? That airline is Virgin America, and they would have gone under long ago, if it weren't for a certain chap with all that hair.

Meanwhile, a carrier like Spirit is making 8%-13% profits, and makes no secret of a lot of that being due to fees.

maybe it has something to do with the routes they offer. i know very little about them. maybe their fares too high. maybe they pay too much. who knows

[Gabriel]

Gabriel, as i stated earlier in the thread, we simply bought a new one way ticket for $165.

I missed that part. Then I agree with you.

[ATLcrew]

maybe it has something to do with the routes they offer. i know very little about them. maybe their fares too high. maybe they pay too much. who knows

I can tell you with great certainty that it's not the latter. You'd do well to research them and their history of lack of success. It's very indicative of the industry as a whole especially as regards to what the customer is or is not willing to support.

[3WE]

3WE,

The reason 'free standby' has gone away is that consumers learned to game the system.....Let's say that on the flight you really want, all the cheap discount fare buckets are already sold out. But on the Redeye flight, there are plenty of discount fares. People learned to just buy the ticket on the cheap flight they didn't want and just standby on the expensive flight they really wanted.....

Ok, totally valid...I get it.

However, I'm thinking that Tee Vee- when faced with unforseen circumstances beyond his control- might just pay the fare difference...

...which leaves the leaves the change fee hanging out there as pretty darn pricey...

...and I dunno- I still kind of think that if you can't get me there on time due to unforseen circumstances, then you guys ought to be paying me a change fee.

Fair enough?

[ConcordeBoy]

maybe their fares too high.

Um, you do realize that this is the airline that made their name with sub-$10 fares, do you not?