If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
“The timing was not at all helpful for people,” Mark Harper, the government minister responsible for transport policy, told the BBC on Tuesday morning.
I would call that a conservative statement: the problem was the timing, not the failure itself. It was not helpful for people at that time. Good assessment.
From what I can gather, the system that streams flight plans directly to the airplane FMC's went down and flight plans had to be entered manually. That doesn't entirely explain the scale of chaos however.
We need more regulation, oversight, procedure, automation and public punishment...(Again)
And acronyms. Don't forget acronyms.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
Just so you know, turning into a tailwind after departure increases risks.
1. Turning any direction after takeoff tends to be done at lower speeds, with less altitude buffer.
2. Turning from a crosswind to a tailwind or a headwind will potentially expose you to more wind gusts and possible speed losses.
3. The eye/brain may perceive the increased ground speed and unconsciously correct for it.
4. There certainty are a few videos of guys stalling out of downwind turns.
5. And intuitively, it sure as hell SEEMS like a problem to overcome inertia and pick up that very real speed differential…AND ALSO it took the Aggie a LOT of thinking to reconcile what happens immediately around lift off…because is some intertial stuff that has to be addressed versus a zero wind takeoff.
6. Ironingly, the way we address the real risks of downwind turns is the same way the intuitive-but-faulty-logic-ATP people address their risk.
Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
Just so you know, turning into a tailwind after departure increases risks. 1 2 3 4 5 6....
Well, judge by yourself:
Originally posted by Certain F-15, F/A-18, Citation XL and major airline Pilot and Youtuber
The wings need a certain velocity of air in order to generate the necessary lift to fly. This velocity is possible because of the thrust produced by the engine. Let's assume you need 70 kts of air velocity at a given AOA to remain flying. If you have a headwind of 20 kts, the engine only needs to produce enough thrust to create 50 kts of forward velocity. Let's assume your engine is producing the maximum amount of thrust possible to generate that 50 kts of forward velocity. If you turn and the headwind becomes a tailwind, your engine will now need to produce 90 kts of air velocity across the wings in order to fly. Since that's not likely to happen, the way to fix that is to reduce your AOA and now you might only need 60 kts of velocity to keep flying.
Evan, do you prefer your major airline pilot to know how to execute the procedures or to know how airplanes fly? ("both" is not an acceptable answer)
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
Originally posted by A Certain F-15, F/A-18, Citation XL and major airline Pilot and Youtuber
The wings need a certain velocity of air in order to generate the necessary lift to fly. This velocity is possible because of the thrust produced by the engine. Let's assume you need 70 kts of air velocity at a given AOA to remain flying. If you have a headwind of 20 kts, the engine only needs to produce enough thrust to create 50 kts of forward velocity. Let's assume your engine is producing the maximum amount of thrust possible to generate that 50 kts of forward velocity. If you turn and the headwind becomes a tailwind, your engine will now need to produce 90 kts of air velocity across the wings in order to fly. Since that's not likely to happen, the way to fix that is to reduce your AOA and now you might only need 60 kts of velocity to keep flying.
1. Wow.
1a. I bet he’s smarter than you and I on how to program his FMS and read an approach plate while nailing heading, altitude and speed while hand flying and changing frequency on the radio…
2. We should ask him about a 180 degree turn at 300 knots. It’s always fun to ponder because by “my frame of reference”, it’s a change of 600 knots, and indeed traces back to thrust…
However the 600 knots makes the extra 20 from the tailwind look small…ironingly, the solution is the same.
Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
Evan, do you prefer your major airline pilot to know how to execute the procedures or to know how airplanes fly? ("both" is not an acceptable answer)
Why is both not an acceptable answer? It’s the only acceptable answer. Both means the pilot knows how airplanes fly AND how pilots who know how airplanes fly still manage to crash them.
We process personal data about users of our site, through the use of cookies and other technologies, to deliver our services, personalize advertising, and to analyze site activity. We may share certain information about our users with our advertising and analytics partners. For additional details, refer to our Privacy Policy.
By clicking "I AGREE" below, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our personal data processing and cookie practices as described therein. You also acknowledge that this forum may be hosted outside your country and you consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the country where this forum is hosted.
Tweet
®
Comment