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I know who is to blame. I know how to prevent it from happening again. Fortunately, so does the Polish government. They know what caused it, and they have made changes. It won't happen again. That's all that matters here.
Everything else is just the usual parasites seeing opportunity in tragedy, fertile soil to sow seeds of conspiracy, paranoia, prejudice and distrust. Why? Why do they want to perpetuate these things? Why do they always chase after misfortunes? The bodies are still warm and there they are, building conspiracies out of nothing but their own obsessive distrust for anything outside their purview.
Northwester, this one is solved, both sides agree on that, and this thread is a broken record.
Your knowledge is very impressive.
The thing about the truth is that it usually finds its way to the surface. Doesn't matter how much effort Burdenkos and the likes put into obscuring it. And sorry to say but the "official truth" in this case starts smelling quite bad already. It won't be long.
How? Would Air Force 1 fly into a remote airfield with no ILS in those conditions? No. Would Air Force 1 be piloted by an inexperienced crew? Never. Does Barack Obama have a history of berating his pilots for adhering to pilot discipline? Not at all.
Really Evan? Why then would AF1 need to go around in marginal weather with Barack Hussein on board and at a homeland airport equipped with ILS too?
A missed approach or "go-around" is a procedure that pilots often execute in poor visibility conditions when the runway is not fully visible on final approach. It is considered the prudent thing to do in such circumstances.
You see, Peter, even ILS approaches have an MDA, and a prudent captain will call off the approach WHENEVER he feels that it is unsafe. Rookies, on the other hand, given to risk taking adventures, will continue such approaches and end up harming a lot of birch trees, among other things.
This is why Air Force one is still flying and Polish 101 belongs to the Russians now.
A missed approach unless done to avoid a traffic, which shouldn't be there is an effect of some sort of error on the side of the crew.
A missed approach or "go-around" is a procedure that pilots often execute in poor visibility conditions when the runway is not fully visible on final approach. It is considered the prudent thing to do in such circumstances.
I seem to remember that at some point in this discussion you claimed that in poor visibility the approach shouldn't be initiated in the fist place.
On the other hand, of of course the author will claim that, as I'm sure he likes to keep his job.
(...)will continue such approaches and end up harming a lot of birch trees, among other things.
This is why Air Force one is still flying and Polish 101 belongs to the Russians now.
Anybody ever told you you are an A...hole? If not, allow me to be the first one.
According to the analysis of Jan Sehn Institut in Cracow general Blasik was not present in the cockpit. The full analysis is supposed to be made public January 16th.
Out of curiosity, I took a peek at the Polish President thread on PPrune, since it is a somewhat tighter forum, and found that neither are they immune to the ravages of Polish American paranoia and Euro-trash angst that live on like a highly resilient strain of bacteria in the aftermath of this tragedy. Maybe that made me feel a little better.
What else would you expect to find there? There is nothing intelligent left to discuss. The threads are long abandoned, but as long as the door stays open, paranoia and angst will roost there.
Mods: Can we open a "Aviation Conspiracy and Alternative Reality" section and move this thread over there?
I remember we had some discussion about the weather conditions during the landing of Yak-40 with the reporters. The pilots of Yak-40 were accused of landing in conditions that were below the minima. In the meantime the accusations have been thrown out and here's a picture showing Yak-40 shortly after landing in Smolensk.
It was only a matter of time before this thread found its rightful place in the gutter, complete with petty bickering, insults, and irrational defenses of indefensible positions.
I hate to say I told you so, but we should have shut this thing down ages ago. Now that the trolls are backed into a corner, they're lashing out.
Out of curiosity, I took a peek at the Polish President thread on PPrune, since it is a somewhat tighter forum, and found that neither are they immune to the ravages of Polish American paranoia and Euro-trash angst that live on like a highly resilient strain of bacteria in the aftermath of this tragedy. Maybe that made me feel a little better.
Ironically, it is those who endlessly drag this thread through the mud, rather than acknowledge the lessons that ought to have come out of it, who show disrespect for the people who died. But that's something they never seem to get, along with the fact that sometimes, just sometimes - every once in awhile - when shitty things happen, it's because we've brought them upon ourselves. But when you live your entire life with a persecution complex, that's not a truth that comes easily.
Fortunately, signs point to lessons being learned where they matter most, so hopefully future occurrences will be avoided.
It is very noble of you FoF to come to Evans' rescue. He needs all the help he can get.
Referring to your other points, though you contribute very little to this forum, I would not necessarily refer to you as a Troll or an Eurotrash. I think you are being too harsh on yourself, but I agree you need to raise a bit a bar on the standard of your contribution. Here is a little sample of your recent posts and that's only the last 3 months of your activity:
Do you really think the KGB would have botched the job that badly? Don't forget, this is the same KGB that set up and took down fog machines in record time, manipulated guidance equipment and used...
Raising the bar in this thread would still put it at about 5 m below runway level. What? You just realized that now? Wake up and smell the kielbasa. Well, we got something anyway, though not much. My question is, is the report unduly harsh towards the FO? The reason I ask is because he seems to have situational awareness, and seems to be bringing everything of relevance to the attention This was posted to YouTube mid-November. Not really the latest update by your standards (could that be the right word?). indeed. Boeing pilots would be looking at the attitude indications on the instruments? Not if they were these pilots. Don't get me wrong. I'm sure these guys would have crashed in a Boeing, too. He might have also been thinking there was a UFO in his flight path. Shall we call 'uninvited visitors from another galaxy' a contributing factor? All of what you say is somewhat my point. I'm trying to figure this out myself. Maybe the other members are joking? Twas the night before Christmas When all through the cabin Not a a creature was stirring Not even the captain... This is a pretty infantile characterization of an Airbus I kinda like it.
I mean, I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but it gets its point across, and I like the fact that it calls their bluff Uh oh. Your fourth post in two-and-a-half years, and that's what you came up with? "I'm going to post some absurd rambling conspiracy crap that's probably going to get flamed, but that's ok The Boeing philosophy of allowing pilots to crash planes through their own preventable errors is doomed. It's only a matter of time for Boeing to adopt Airbus philosophy Huh? Am I misunderstanding something? It sounds like a more drastic change than that. Somehow always a bit sadder when it's close to home. Three adults, three children probably lost. RIP.
P.S. Is every aircraft ever made in the Jetphotos photography database? An odd story. I'm glad to see your black-and-white approach to aviation extends to other areas as well. Could this have happened on an Airbus? You know, I can almost imagine someone saying something like In the interests of staying current (Wikipedia):
So it's unclear what the future for Red Bull was prior to this accident. With public attention newly re-focused on the latest Tu-134 crash, maybe it was an opportune time for Medvedev to state this position I would start by saying I didn't realize spectator injuries had ever occurred in boat racing, but which race was it I've now heard just about every conceivable sport mentioned and the inherent risks involved Your chances of being killed by a shark are 1 in 3,943,110. (Source: Discover Magazine, July 2011). Oops. Anyway, I don't think your example is a slippery slope. With a glider, you put only yourself in danger. Does anyone force you to read my comments? No worries, they could have just as easily died at a badminton tournament Still all over Youtube and many news websites. This appears to be a heretofore unknown version of a crop circle. Perhaps this was put here so that "someone else" would know where to put down and obtain some... well, I don't think I should say... Well, an accident can be very detrimental to the profit of an airline.
...as the door stays open, paranoia and angst will roost there.
Mods: Can we open a "Aviation Conspiracy and Alternative Reality" section and move this thread over there?
There is sometimes an elusive middle ground.
Heck yes, why trust Russia to not have some genuine cover ups and fabrications in their report? There's power and politics, images and maybe even money involved.
Maybe some navaid was not maintained to a proper standard.
Maybe the approach chart was too liberal in minimum altitudes.
So while NW may be a closed-minded, hooked-on-conspiracy. nut job, and while this was basically an accident as opposed to a brillaint assasination, it's still interesting to discuss potential inconsistencies and theories...
...sort of what a wide-open discusion board populated by parlor talkers should be allowed to do.
Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
Maybe some navaid was not maintained to a proper standard.
Maybe the approach chart was too liberal in minimum altitudes.
We've been over this so many times. It wouldn't matter if the chart was drawn in crayon by an idiot and the navaid was in Switzerland. That wouldn't crash the plane. When you embark on a non-precision approach, and you don't see the runway at MDA, that approach has failed, you depart, no questions asked. You don't mess with the altimeters, and you know which ones to be reading, and you know how and when to use the automation. The worst thing that can happen is that you can't land and you have to go to the alternate. No one but the pilot can force the plane below MDA, and one thing we can safely say is that the pilot here did not have the runway in sight.
It was pilot error.
That being said, I'd like to know how the YAK (and every other plane there) got in without a hitch if the charts and Navaids were off. The first sign of a conspiracy theory is the disregard for all the inconvenient logic that interferes with it.
Absolutely, parlor talkers should be allowed to discuss potential inconsistencies and theories... within the context of aviation safety. But this thread is no longer about aviation safety, it's about a conspiracy theory. Can you honestly say that it is anything other than that?
You could similarly hold a fascinating discussion on alien abductions that brings in some interesting points about radar technology or alleged sightings by airline pilots, but that wouldn't make it relevant enough to be on this board. By all means, continue the discussion, but put it where it belongs, in the off-topic forum.
Absolute statements are almost always wrong: Yes, I can honestly say that the continued discussions of this crash are more than trying to force conspiracy theories. Is PPRUNE moving it's thread to the off-topic forum?
Discussions of whether the timeline is off by a second, or the appearance that a birch tree was cut off reflect on just how accurate our "forensics" may or may not be. This has implications on the study of safety in all sorts of other crashes.
The guy shooting himself (allegedly shooting himself), is big conspiracy fuel. Who knows, maybe the Russians did something unsafe that should bring them ridicule? Maybe the fire squad at the airport had been hitting the wodka and did a lousy response to the crash? (even though it didn't make any difference). Maybe the plane crashed on top of some hidden nuclear missile bunker?
You are free to ignore the crazier conspiracy posts, but there's also a certain free-speech expectation on a discussion forum. Not 100% free speech, but we need to be careful when we start telling folks what they can and cannot say- especially if there may be at least a little evidence of things not being Kosher.
Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
You are free to ignore the crazier conspiracy posts, but there's also a certain free-speech expectation on a discussion forum. Not 100% free speech, but we need to be careful when we start telling folks what they can and cannot say- especially if there may be at least a little evidence of things not being Kosher.
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