Seat Recline Wars and airline stupidity

[3WE]

You just dream the dream, I live it, and get paid big $$ to do it. And so as you read your 35 years worth of Flying magazines, I am sipping a cold one here in Narita. Tomorrow I will fly to Hong Kong and have 3 days off to enjoy the local food and "hospitality". You will NEVER know!

It's all good man, you keep hauling fake rubber dog $hit out of Hong Kong, and I'll keep shoveling manure and feeding the world and worrying as to why, as an outsider looking in, I still know a few, not-so-obscure, things that the old pro doesn't.

[Gabriel]

It's all good man, you keep hauling fake rubber dog $hit out of Hong Kong, and I'll keep shoveling manure and feeding the world and worrying as to why, as an outsider looking in, I still know a few, not-so-obscure, things that the old pro doesn't.

I bet that your shit stinks worse than BB's

[elaw]

In whose opinion?

[Evan]

Brian, can we just shorten the title of this thread to "stupidity"?

[BoeingBobby]

Somehow your posts dont's seem compatible with each other. It's not that the cold words are contradictory. Rather it is your attitude (or what I perceive of it) what is contradictory.

Isn't it amazing how ones attitude sours when accused of being a liar and told that he should worry about dying soon?

[Gabriel]

Isn't it amazing how ones attitude sours when accused of being a liar and told that he should worry about dying soon?

I've missed those parts (even after looking again now). Would you point them out for me please?

[brianw999]

How about we lay aside our collective sniper rifles and get back on topic eh ?

[Gabriel]

How about we lay aside our collective sniper rifles and get back on topic eh ?

Ok, I'll add that the cramped pitch rate is nothing new.

I remember in the year 1987 I went to Israel. I was 17 back then. The flight made Buenos Aires - Spain (don't remember if it was Madrid or Barcelona), 12 hours in an Aerolíneas Argentinas 747. That was the golden era of Aerolíneas Argentinas, it was starting to revert its losses into shy profits and it had been voted by the paxs world wide as the "Airline of the Year". I still remember the seats in blue leather, which were quite comfortable and with a good pitch rate. There, El-Al 747 to Ben Gurion. I just didn't fit, even when back then I still had a couple more inches to grow. I had to cross my legs under my seat and I was stuck like that the 4 or 5 hours that took the flight.

I had not flown for a few years before this trip, so the fact that I didn't feel so cramped before could be related more to the fact that I was shorter than to a better seat pitch in the previous years.

I think that my worst flight ever, in terms of habitability, was an AF 777 from Buenos Aires to Paris in 2001. Not only the seat pitch was clearly negative compared with my femur, but the seats themselves were horribly hard and uncomfortable. My arse started to hurt badly after just a couple of hours, and we still had 10 more to go. I was in pain like one week after that flight.

So this situation is nothing new. 1987 was 28 years ago.

What is new now is that every seat that has half an inch more, including emergency exit seats and bulkhead seats, is considered a new class: premium economy. So back then it was more likely that you would get a long-legs seat at the time of reservation or check-in (back exit seats were assigned only during check in at the airport). Now you can get a premium economy seat at the moment of reservation or check in, paying more of course. A standard coach seat can be changed for a long legs one for the same fare only just prior to boarding.

[TeeVee]

What is new now is that every seat that has half an inch more, including emergency exit seats and bulkhead seats, is considered a new class: premium economy. So back then it was more likely that you would get a long-legs seat at the time of reservation or check-in (back exit seats were assigned only during check in at the airport). Now you can get a premium economy seat at the moment of reservation or check in, paying more of course. A standard coach seat can be changed for a long legs one for the same fare only just prior to boarding.

not sure what airline(s) you are flying but those that i've been on that do offer PE, offer a far superior product to a regular econ seat in their PE class. certainly not the best and perhaps some would say not worth the price, but in my mind, the PE seats are light years ahead of the cattle class sardine-can econ seats.

[brianw999]

I've flown premium on 4 different airlines so far namely Thomson Airways B787 and B767-300, Virgin Atlantic A340-600, Cathay Pacific B777-300 and BA B777-300.
The first three were all on a par comfort wise with wider, better padded seats and 38" pitch. IFE was on demand with Thomson offering fewer but enough movies and Virgin and Cathay offering an astonishing number of movies. BA was the worse with a standard economy seat width and 37" pitch and a mid level range of AVOD.
Premium for long haul though is definitely the way to go as a minimum for me.

[Gabriel]

not sure what airline(s) you are flying but those that i've been on that do offer PE, offer a far superior product to a regular econ seat in their PE class. certainly not the best and perhaps some would say not worth the price, but in my mind, the PE seats are light years ahead of the cattle class sardine-can econ seats.

How is that different from what I said?

[elaw]

not sure what airline(s) you are flying but those that i've been on that do offer PE, offer a far superior product to a regular econ seat in their PE class. certainly not the best and perhaps some would say not worth the price, but in my mind, the PE seats are light years ahead of the cattle class sardine-can econ seats.

Not trying to be argumentative but truly curious... what airlines/routes is this on?

I don't fly very much, and when I do it's usually less-than-exotic routes like BOS-DAY. But as far as I can tell on those flights, PE is just the same uncomfortable seats as in cattle class, with a slightly greater pitch.

[TeeVee]

How is that different from what I said?

you said: "What is new now is that every seat that has half an inch more, including emergency exit seats and bulkhead seats, is considered a new class: premium economy."

PE is much more than 1/2 more. maybe the seat is .5 - 1 inch WIDER. but the seat pitch is 3-5 inches more and the seat recline is better as well.

what you are thinking is like AA's "main cabin extra" which is only marginally better than regular econ.

elites get those seats for free, so at least that's one more bonus for us.

[TeeVee]

Not trying to be argumentative but truly curious... what airlines/routes is this on?

I don't fly very much, and when I do it's usually less-than-exotic routes like BOS-DAY. But as far as I can tell on those flights, PE is just the same uncomfortable seats as in cattle class, with a slightly greater pitch.

long hauls.

JAL: LAX-NRT 777-300 ER; 42" pitch, 19" seat...VERY NICE
Cathay: LAX-HKG 777-300; 38" pitch 19.5 seat...NICE
BA: MIA-LHR 747; 38" pitch 18.5 seat...meh
BA: LHR-SIN A380; 38" pitch 18.5 seat...meh


p.s. you may be confusing premium economy with main cabin extra or some other domestic market BS. i don't think any US based airlines offer a true premium economy seat. i know for a fact AA does not on any plane on any route.

[Evan]

Oh yeah? What about stacking passengers? Face-plant reverse recline? Hexagon seating? Or the dreaded saddle? All have been patented already...

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/23/aviation/airplane-seats-patents/index.html

Why not morgue-like drawers? Or just bubble-wrap and tranquilizers? There's no telling what the hateful disregard of the general public that breeds in corporate boardrooms will come up with next. The future is lookin' bright!