Tweet
Originally posted by Evan
View Post
-
No. -
Yes. Those enabled for ASD do. Germanwings did. That's how they knew very early in the investigation that the pilot had intentionally selected a very low flight level.Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---Comment
-
I think the trick is that except for two very short "blips", the autopilot target altitude was lower than the actual from just after the captain left the cockpit until around the end of the time period in the graph. So the plane would have been descending steadily the whole time except during the "blips" which were so short the A/P and A/T probably didn't react significantly.Originally posted by Evan View Post
Actually it wouldn't surprise me if the system applied some "smoothing" to the altitude target, to prevent abrupt changes in pitch when the setting is changed.Be alert! America needs more lerts.
Eric LawComment
-
They descended some 12000ft in some 4 minutes, giving a very typical 3000 fpm rate.Originally posted by sjwk View Post
Note how he was playing with the target altitude all the time but set the final altitude (and left it there) shortly before the captain re-entered the cockpit.
This must have been an authorized descent. Either requested (and cleared) by the crew or instructed by the ATC.
No way the captain could have noted anything strange while out of the cockpit, beyond a normal descent, which would not have been unlikely if they were close to the point where they would start the descent anyway. Perhaps they even discussed the descent before the captain left the cockpit (note that the descent started some 20 seconds after the captain left the cockpit).
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---Comment
-
Wait a second... why is the captain leaving the cockpit just before the start of a descent? Shouldn't he be taking care of nature's call before departing level flight? In this scenario, he reenters the cockpit to find the a/c in level flight but at 12,000 ft lower altitude. Certainly he would have noticed this so he must have approved of it. Is it SOP to leave the rookie F/O alone on the flight deck at the start of a descent? It shouldn't be...Comment
-
At 919hrs, 540 on type, the first officer wasn't exactly a rookie...Originally posted by Evan View PostComment
-
I wouldn't quote the Bild Zeitung. For our UK residents: it's like quoting the Sun.Originally posted by Evan View PostComment
-
It's not so complicated really.Originally posted by Evan View Post
Scenario 1:
ATC calls for descent earlier than expected. Captain says "start the descent, I want to go to the toilet before we are lower and the workload increases". A descent from cruise is very easy and the risks are minimal. Take into account, for example, that sterile cockpit starts at 10K feet AGL.
Scenario 2:
Captain leaves cockpit 10 minutes before the planned start of the descent so he is relieved before it. ATC calls "Germanwings XYZ descend to FL240".
If copilots are instructed to descend while their captain is in the toilet, they don't tell ATC "wait until my captain is back from the restroom".
Scenario 2b: After the captain leaves the FO calls ATC "request descent to 240". If they say no, ok he stays up there. If they say yes, then it's time to play and when the captain is back the FO tells him "ATC told me to descend". In either way, the captain will never know that the FO called the ATC and requested the descent.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---Comment
-
...I am thinking the word choice does not match what the co-pilot was thinking.
I think I know how to dial in 100 ft MSL to an autopilot- I object to the suggestion that he was 'practicing'.
More likely it was some sort of sicko-psycological 'reharsal'-meditation-pondering...and not any sort of sign that someone should have caught, nor would it be effective for the flight computer to call the company psychologist when such things are detected...if there were such a system, the pilot would just make hand motions visualize 100 feet...
...pure speculation, but...Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.Comment
-
-
ADS and mode S transponders both support broadcasting / reporting of "selected altitude" and "selected heading" although I don't think it's required.Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
In the case of this flight, it looks like mode S data is what was used: http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/U...ltitude_by_ATC
Here's a forum post with what's claimed to be the actual data: http://forum.flightradar24.com/threa...-some-more-datBe alert! America needs more lerts.
Eric LawComment
-
I think there were two moments between 7:22:30 and 7:24:20 where he had decided to go through with it but then backed out. If I had been on the inbound flight, this would send a shiver down my spine...Originally posted by 3WE View PostComment
-
Very interesting. I'm yet to hear a single controller say anything to the effect "Flight XXX, I cleared you to FL 230, but I see you've selected FL210" or "your assigned heading was 215, but I see you selected 225", so I imagine the capability is not widespread.Originally posted by elaw View PostComment
-
I would imagine that this kind of data would auto send to the airline rather than ATC ?If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !
Comment
-
I don't know for sure, but perhaps this info is "recorded in the radar tapes" but not displayed to the controllers.Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
Somehow they knew immediately after the crash that the pilot had selected 100ft.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---Comment
Comment