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Flydubai Flight 981 Crashes on Landing in Rostov-on-Don, Russia
I may be mis-reading something...but it strikes me that 1000 feet might provide decent leeway and an opportunity to get into an extremely steep, "unrecoverable" climb?
I'm assuming BB's STANDARD procedure is with both AP's engaged. Pitch remains in TO/GA until VNAV is selected. AT is in GA which, unless it has been pushed a second time, is a reduced go-around N1. No opportunity for a steep anything.
If he is referring to a manual go-around, the AT is still in GA commanding reduced N1 and then there's the the pitch bars to keep you honest.
I'm assuming BB's STANDARD procedure is with both AP's engaged. Pitch remains in TO/GA until VNAV is selected. AT is in GA which, unless it has been pushed a second time, is a reduced go-around N1. No opportunity for a steep anything.
If he is referring to a manual go-around, the AT is still in GA commanding reduced N1 and then there's the the pitch bars to keep you honest.
Wow, I thought he was suggesting that the pilots maintain the attitude where it should be.
Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
There must be more to this story. Did they shut off the AP or did it disconnect? As I posted before, it WILL disconnect if the TO/GA buttons are pushed during single-autopilot operations. Did this happen? Did it surprise them and cause disorientation? Did they react by firewalling the thrust levers and getting into pitch coupling? Did they ignore the FD's (sure seems like it) and why? Where was the pitch trim?
All good questions. They are saying the AP was shut off
Did they get into somatogravic illusion and fly in down?
I think they are suggesting a rapid climb and then a stall. Besides, it took some time for the plane to crash after the go-around, as seen on one of the videos, so it must have climbed first.
i'm tempted to say that the TOGA button should do EVERYTHING needed for a safe GA. since it appears that some folks (very few) flying these multi-tens-of-millions-of-dollar aircraft have a hard time with rather straight forward procedures. but then we would of course run into the converse--pilots who forget how to fly with their hands and brains and one day the computer just shits itself....
i'm tempted to say that the TOGA button should do EVERYTHING needed for a safe GA.
It does. Now, disconnect the AP, and it doesn't.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
i'm tempted to say that the TOGA button should do EVERYTHING needed for a safe GA. since it appears that some folks (very few) flying these multi-tens-of-millions-of-dollar aircraft have a hard time with rather straight forward procedures.but then we would of course run into the converse--pilots who forget how to fly with their hands and brains and one day the computer just shits itself....
...or forget whether the autopilot is on or off or the TOGA button was or was not pushed...
...For the moment, this is one of those things where Gabe and I and Evan (and Brian? and Avion?) sit back as snot-nosed outsiders and spout the absolute statement, "We would never ever ever ever ever do that", it violates all the fundamentals (Me), all the procedures (Evan) and both fundamentals and procedures (Gabe)...
But, let me again, cross my fingers and hope that there is some other explanation hidden here...something broke...the computer hiccupped...yet to be released until the final report, it makes no sense that a pilot would not be monitoring the Attitude indicator / Flight director whatever and pull up* into a hammer-head-like stall.
(Under-slung engines acknowledged, BUT the fight over "pushing over" suggests that under-slung engines are not the problem.)
Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
........................For the moment, this is one of those things where Gabe and I and Evan (and Brian? and Avion?) sit back as snot-nosed outsiders and spout the absolute statement, "We would never ever ever ever ever do that", it violates all the fundamentals (Me), all the procedures (Evan) and both fundamentals and procedures (Gabe and Brian)...
On the 73NG, you cannot engage the autopilots in GA mode without both autopilots operating. If only one is operating, you get the GA autothrottle mode (assuming AT is armed) and the FD in GA mode but you are hand-flying. After you've commenced the GA and you select another pitch mode (above 400ft RA, VNAV for example) the CMD AP is flying and the second AP disconnects. So you commence the GA with dual AP and you transition out of it with one.
BB, on the 74, are you talking about commencing the GA with a single AP or are you talking about continuing with one AP after a initiating a manual GA ? I don't know the 747 so well but it seems strange for Boeing to allow it on one but not the other.
On the 73NG, you cannot engage the autopilots in GA mode without both autopilots operating. If only one is operating, you get the GA autothrottle mode (assuming AT is armed) and the FD in GA mode but you are hand-flying. After you've commenced the GA and you select another pitch mode (above 400ft RA, VNAV for example) the CMD AP is flying and the second AP disconnects. So you commence the GA with dual AP and you transition out of it with one.
BB, on the 74, are you talking about commencing the GA with a single AP or are you talking about continuing with one AP after a initiating a manual GA ? I don't know the 747 so well but it seems strange for Boeing to allow it on one but not the other.
Such complexity...(and laden with insidious traps)
Yet, somehow it is wrong for me to think about 172 go-arounds...
-Full power
-Manage airspeed and attitude and work towards a climb
-Clean up aircraft (no gear in this case*, but flaps 20)
-Stabilize everything, get to a good altitude and THEN start messing with secondary needs.
*Except for type-specific 172RG and AC with amphibious floats
Changing topics: Brian's edits to my post are acknowledged, accepted & appreciated.
Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
On the 73NG, you cannot engage the autopilots in GA mode without both autopilots operating. If only one is operating, you get the GA autothrottle mode (assuming AT is armed) and the FD in GA mode but you are hand-flying. After you've commenced the GA and you select another pitch mode (above 400ft RA, VNAV for example) the CMD AP is flying and the second AP disconnects. So you commence the GA with dual AP and you transition out of it with one.
BB, on the 74, are you talking about commencing the GA with a single AP or are you talking about continuing with one AP after a initiating a manual GA ? I don't know the 747 so well but it seems strange for Boeing to allow it on one but not the other.
Hmmm... I didn't know that.
So, I am in an IMC approach with one AP engaged (and AT too). I reach the minimums, I don't have the runway on sight, so I hit the GA button.
What exactly happens after that, assuming that I don't touch anything else?
My understanding (which can be wrong) is that the AT would go to TOGA power, that the FD roll mode would go to heading hold, and that the FD pitch mode would go to GA climb to the preselcted altitude. And... that the AP (that is still on) would have no choice but to follow the FD commands. Or does the single AP disconnects itself the moment you hit GA?
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
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