Originally posted by TeeVee
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
The United debarcle
Collapse
X
-
Originally posted by 3WE View PostYour tendencies for invalid arguments are interesting. The argument isn't CAT vs. Taxi- its Belted vs. Non Belted.
the closest analogy i can think of is this: states that have seatbelt laws but not helmet laws.
Comment
-
Originally posted by 3WE View PostHow about- Unexpected, sudden, firm braking, harder than one generally wishes to do and something that might make an ordinary standing person stumble and an occasional person fall, and which would tend to cause an FA to say "Woah" and grab a seat back in a demonstration of genius fundamental attendanpersonship.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by TeeVee View Postunless you're not paying attention, i have a hard time believing that. but assuming arguendo it's true, how many flight attendants have you injured this way?
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by TeeVee View Postunless you're not paying attention, i have a hard time believing that. but assuming arguendo it's true, how many flight attendants have you injured this way?
Give me totals for FAs, Pax, and the hours of total time exposure on everything, figures on belted, unbelted seated, or standing (24 discrete combos) and we can begin to make some valid comparisons. (Asking this of tee vee, not ATL).Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
Comment
-
Originally posted by 3WE View PostAnd the corollary question is how many FAs has ‘ATL’ injured from surprise CAT?
Give me totals for FAs, Pax, and the hours of total time exposure on everything, figures on belted, unbelted seated, or standing (24 discrete combos) and we can begin to make some valid comparisons. (Asking this of tee vee, not ATL).
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
Comment
-
Originally posted by Gabriel View PostAre you going to use conventional MANOVA or Taguchi?
Finally, we have the elusive courtroom factor- "Why in the hell would you let passengers walk around during taxi when you KNOW that ATL slams on the brakes (or the wordy version described above) once a month….taxi averages 15 minutes so you should know that the risk is greatly increased for that short time period". I know Mr. Tee Vee wants to compare surprise CAT at cruise, but since it's usually predictable, and since the policy is for passengers to be belted anyway and because we are talking hours instead of minutes and because people have to pee, total-surprise-injurious CAT is a genuine, but small and acceptable risk, since people have to pee. The risk for folks to pee during a 15 minute taxi...UNNECCESARY.Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
Comment
-
Originally posted by 3WE View PostBelieve it or not, the first step is to simply "look at" the data. I am worried about the sample size for passengers standing during taxi, and am not sure how to handle "length of taxi" and "length of cruse with seatbelt sign on AND off...and perhaps length of flight, all as covariates. If we can get a good dataset, I'll visit with you more about analyses.
Finally, we have the elusive courtroom factor- "Why in the hell would you let passengers walk around during taxi when you KNOW that ATL slams on the brakes (or the wordy version described above) once a month….taxi averages 15 minutes so you should know that the risk is greatly increased for that short time period". I know Mr. Tee Vee wants to compare surprise CAT at cruise, but since it's usually predictable, and since the policy is for passengers to be belted anyway and because we are talking hours instead of minutes and because people have to pee, total-surprise-injurious CAT is a genuine, but small and acceptable risk, since people have to pee. The risk for folks to pee during a 15 minute taxi...UNNECCESARY.
this conversation began with an article about being parked on a taxiway (supposedly active, but i've never heard of any taxiway not being active, and the act of "parking" on a taxiway tends to make it inactive). you then have changed the narrative to talking about belted vs. non-belted, walking around fraternising etc etc.
my point is and always has been that there is no sense in the regulation that requires pax to be seated and belted while parked and doing squat for hours on end.
enough BS, let's look at the law:
14 CFR 121.317(b). Except as provided in paragraph (l) of this section, the “Fasten Seat Belt” sign shall be turned on during any movement on the surface, for each takeoff, for each landing, and at any other time considered necessary by the pilot in command.
14 CFR 121.317(f). Each passenger required by § 121.311(b) to occupy a seat or berth shall fasten his or her safety belt about him or her and keep it fastened while the “Fasten Seat Belt” sign is lighted.
violation of the foregoing is CIVIL not criminal.
so the plane is parked, wherever, you KNOW that it's not going anywhere anytime soon, and you know that people have to use the lav. you have 2 choices: turn off the light and allow folks some dignity and comfort (rare as that is today) or tell them to fuck off, force them to violate the civil regulation, call the police and cause havoc at the gate, thus subjecting an otherwise law abiding citizen to civil enforcement action by the FAA for having to pee, crap etc.
p.s. 3bs: the danger of CAT is exactly that it is NOT predictable.
Comment
-
to throw more wood on the fire, a quick search of NTSB stats using the term "clear air turbulence" for the period of 01/01/2000 - 10/07/2009 reveals 44 separate instances of CAT resulting in injuries. obviously this only includes US flights and airlines.
as far as i'm concerned, risk of injury from CAT is higher than brake slam
Comment
-
Originally posted by TeeVee View Postso the plane is parked, wherever, you KNOW that it's not going anywhere anytime soon, and you know that people have to use the lav. you have 2 choices: turn off the light and allow folks some dignity and comfort (rare as that is today) or tell them to fuck off, force them to violate the civil regulation, call the police and cause havoc at the gate, thus subjecting an otherwise law abiding citizen to civil enforcement action by the FAA for having to pee, crap etc.
Pax: Excuse me, I absolutely need to use the lavatory right away.
FA: We need to keep everyone seated and ready for takeoff. Is it urgent?
Pax: Very.
FA: Very well, but please hurry.
FA then gets on the interphone and informs the pilot that a passenger had to use the lav urgently and the cabin is not prepared until the passenger is reseated.
The flight crews says okey dokey, let us know.
The passenger returns to the seat. The FA informs the crew.
Nobody gets histrionic or litigious.
Done.
Comment
-
Originally posted by TeeVee View PostParked...brake slam
CAT is probably more dangerous than being parked, not too much debate although there's a steady stream of ground collisions (A-380 vs. CRJ comes to mind).
Surprise brake slams do happen and do have risks just like surprise CAT happens and does have risks- again, not too much debate.
However, you continue to make dramatic, theatrical and one-sided rants that CAT data suggests that it's OK for folks to pee during active taxi, including an inaccurate statement that brake slams are incredibly rare, since you have never seen one (nor has Evan seen baggage cart driving during his similarly frequent flying).Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Evan View PostNobody gets histrionic or litigious.
Might I also suggest that several times a day, someone gets histrionic or litigious to a airline employees over any number of things...Customer service is such a cool place to work- try it sometime, Evan.Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
Comment
Comment