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Lion Air 737-Max missing, presumed down in the sea near CGK (Jakarta)
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Lion Air has ended their search for the CVR. The Indonesian NTSC will now "likely" conduct their own search "as soon as feasible".
I get the impression they don't want it found. Boeing should do everything to recover it, including funding their own search if necessary. If we can recover the CVR for AF-447 and the Air Asia 'debarcle', we can recover this one as well.
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Originally posted by Evan View PostLion Air has ended their search for the CVR. The Indonesian NTSC will now "likely" conduct their own search "as soon as feasible".
I get the impression they don't want it found. Boeing should do everything to recover it, including funding their own search if necessary. If we can recover the CVR for AF-447 and the Air Asia 'debarcle', we can recover this one as well.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...-recor-454757/
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Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
Boeing is entirely correct in that the procedure for runaway trim was adequate to handle this. That isn't my issue.
My issue is that Boeing crutched the 737Max through certification using a system that overrides pilot commands with NO COMPARATOR REDUNDANCY. One bad sensor, one BIG problem.
Apparently the system is entirely software, so giving it comparator redundancy should be as easy as altering code. Maybe this is what will be in the update. If not, they're crazy.
The problem with relying on the trim runaway procedure alone is that the behavior of the system when malfunctioning can cause the crew to become disoriented, scramble their situational awareness and lead to those 'what's it doing now' scenarios where crews forget CRM and just wing it.
"I don't know, just pull back a bit. That always works..."
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i did not know that brazil had required pilot instruction. and the absolutely lame-ass line from the faa about every country having different blah blah blah...WTF????????????? really? you mean humans die in somehow different ways in brazilian air crashes? sorry folks, that guy needs to be removed from the gene pool.
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Originally posted by TeeVee View Posti did not know that brazil had required pilot instruction. and the absolutely lame-ass line from the faa about every country having different blah blah blah...WTF????????????? really? you mean humans die in somehow different ways in brazilian air crashes? sorry folks, that guy needs to be removed from the gene pool.
But more importantly, this crash is not about how the new system works or behaves, it's about how it behaves when it isn't working right. Nobody seems to have given that much thought:
Originally posted by NYTimesIn designing the 737 Max, Boeing decided to feed M.C.A.S. with data from only one of the two angle of attack sensors at a time, depending on which of two, redundant flight control computers — one on the captain’s side, one on the first officer’s side — happened to be active on that flight.
That decision kept the system simpler, but also left it vulnerable to a single malfunctioning sensor, or data improperly transferred from it — as appeared to occur on the day of the crash.
There is no evidence that Boeing did flight-testing of M.C.A.S. with erroneous sensor data, and it is not clear whether the F.A.A. did so. European regulators flight-tested the new version of the plane with normal sensor data feeding into M.C.A.S. but not with bad data, the pilot familiar with the European certification process said.
I think what we are seeing here is the manifestation of a bad decision on Boeing's part to forgo the 737 replacement project and a too-cozy relationship with the FAA in re-certifying that obsolete airframe as a 21st-century contender.
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Originally posted by Evan...who reads it? From my observation of post-accident and post-accident reports, there are quite a few pilots out there who are quite uninspired to read the Manual...
Indeed. Reckless cowboy improvisation permeates the pilot community!Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
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I know that "RTFM" is usually considered good advice, but is it part of the runaway pitch trim emergency procedure? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/c...ng-737-n985296Be alert! America needs more lerts.
Eric Law
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Originally posted by elaw View Posthttps://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/cockpit-voice-recorder-reveals-moments-leading-lion-air-boeing-737-n985296[/URL]
"They didn't seem to know the trim was moving down," the third source said. "They thought only about airspeed and altitude. That was the only thing they talked about."
Also the handover to the FO seems to provide an explanation as to why the trim switch inputs stopped. Apparently, trim was never mentioned between them, so the FO might have not recognized that aspect.
Very sad that the pilot died looking for answers in a manual that never held any.
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