Originally posted by Evan
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Pilots need to use the autopilot/FMS more!
Collapse
X
-
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
-
Evan - I go around.
Reversers are selected within a couple of seconds of touchdown, so you haven't used much runway or lost much speed. The thrust will very quickly have you powering away from the ground with plenty of the even ridiculously short runway in front of you. You still have momentum and will fly away without any issues.
There's always room for the go around is the short answer.
Comment
-
Originally posted by BoeingBobby View PostOh this is fun, and I haven't even posted on the thread!
This is right up your alley- responsibilities of the pilots versus discussions as to why the electronics allowed this- including a previous system that occasionally interrupted those critical ATC calls. Oh the ironing!
Or are we covering it all reasonaby well- along with plenty of nifty & naieve layman suggestions as to how you should do your job better?Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
Comment
-
Originally posted by MCM View PostEvan - I go around.
Reversers are selected within a couple of seconds of touchdown, so you haven't used much runway or lost much speed. The thrust will very quickly have you powering away from the ground with plenty of the even ridiculously short runway in front of you. You still have momentum and will fly away without any issues.
There's always room for the go around is the short answer.
And becuase of that there's a pretty hard rule that when reversers are selected you stop period?Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
Comment
-
Originally posted by MCM View PostObmot,
The system does exist, although it requires the latest generation of EGPWS computer, which most aircraft do not have.
It also requires the operator to have it installed.
Early incarnations of the system, while good, left a little to be desired. Unfortunately while it was a great theory, the system would often announce something just at the wrong time, and manage to block an ATC transmission or another call. They weren't just a passive system that would only tell you when you stuffed up, they also gave you other information. For example, taxiing around an airport it would announce "APPROACHING RUNWAY XX", which was for situational awareness. It also said things like "Wrong Runway".
....
Comment
-
Originally posted by 3WE View PostJoin the fun.
This is right up your alley- responsibilities of the pilots versus discussions as to why the electronics allowed this- including a previous system that occasionally interrupted those critical ATC calls. Oh the ironing!
Or are we covering it all reasonably well- along with plenty of nifty & naive layman suggestions as to how you should do your job better?
Comment
-
Originally posted by ATLcrew View PostI would hope that if one would attempt to emulate e. e. cummings, he wouldn't start with avoidance of capitals.
seriously! is it so offensive to ignore a few stupid rules of grammar?
clearly vnav had little of merit to say regarding the substance of my earlier post, so he attacked my typing. yeah, that adds tons of credence to his position.
Comment
-
Originally posted by TeeVee View Posti'm not "emulating" anyone. i'm an attorney. i type all day long. i have little patience for worrying about capitalization when posting here or other fora where i take part in discussions.
seriously! is it so offensive to ignore a few stupid rules of grammar?
clearly vnav had little of merit to say regarding the substance of my earlier post, so he attacked my typing. yeah, that adds tons of credence to his position.
Please continue to sidestep the fact that you are not perfect and may be out of line in calling the pilots turds.
I don't know, but I'd bet you have f'd up a time or two in your driving, or walking, or maybe even your professional life.
That's the point and the beautiful thing is that you actually know what the point is, but attempt to play it off with more ad hominum stuff yourself.
I guess this board is a rehersal ground for the distress lawsuits you will taking on, and pocketing a nice chunk of change?Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
Comment
-
Originally posted by 3WE View PostNice diversion.
Please continue to sidestep the fact that you are not perfect and may be out of line in calling the pilots turds.
I don't know, but I'd bet you have f'd up a time or two in your driving, or walking, or maybe even your professional life.
That's the point and the beautiful thing is that you actually know what the point is, but attempt to play it off with more ad hominum stuff yourself.
I guess this board is a rehersal ground for the distress lawsuits you will taking on, and pocketing a nice chunk of change?
sure i f up all the time. thing is, i own up to it. i don't hide behind some wall of silence or make sorry ass excuses like many.
these guys f'd up. they got away VERY lucky that no one died. stop coddling them and making excuses, or rationalizing how it is POSSIBLE to mistake one airport for another when God, Boeing, the US DOD, and who knows how many others, put the technology to avoid this very mistake at your fingertips.
show me one time where the technology screwed up and fooled the humans into landing at the wrong and potentially very dangerous airport.
p.s. not directed at you, 3we...
Comment
-
Originally posted by TeeVee View Postthese guys f'd up. they got away VERY lucky that no one died.
Does the bolded part make any difference when judging severity of the pilots' acts and mistakes?
I mean, I know that in criminal law the consequence of one's act affects the severity of the punishment: You aim and shot at somebody's head with all the intention of killing that person, and the crime is not the same if, just by chance, you miss, you slightly hurt the person, you seriously hurt the person or you kill the person. I really don't like it because we are judging random chance and not the act and intention itself, but I understand that justice has a component of revenge and if somebody kills my son I will want that person much more dead than if he fails and just scratches him (I'd want him/her dead to, but not as badly).
But analyzing it with a systemic approach: Imagine two parallel universes that are nearly identical. So you have two set of identical crews, that are equally professional, conscious, motivated, awake and well (or bad) trained flying two identical planes an making identical mistakes along the way. Both miss identical airports that are their intended destination and wrongly land at another airport that are identical one to the other and identically located, the runway is too short in both of them, the only difference in one of them there is a cliff at the end of the runway while in the other one there is just flat, smooth, solid dirt. In one case everybody dies and in the other case the plane is towed to the gate where everybody disembark normally and the only maintenance needed is to brush the dirt.
Another difference (consequence of the above) is that one of them is aired in all the TV stations and discussed in all the internet forum while the other one is only posted at AvHerald.
Is one crew more "turd" than the other? Is the mistake itself worse in one case than the other? Somehow I tend to think that you would not be so hard with the crew that, just by chance, had the better outcome.
As a side note (or maybe not so "side"), almost daily you'll find in AvHerald cases of planes that overrun the runway, even when the crew landed in the CORRECT airport and runway.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
Comment
-
Originally posted by Gabriel View Post...the only difference in one of them there is a cliff at the end of the runway while in the other one there is just flat, smooth, solid dirt.
The other reason everyone is alive is that the runway was dry. That is of course beyond the pilots control so, yes, it did all come down to dumb luck in the end. Bad discipline, dumb luck, and good piloting.
The baffling thing to me is how they got it down on all three on a podunk airstrip and still didn't realize their mistake in time to go around.
Comment
Comment