Originally posted by Evan
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BE-350 crashes immediately after takeoff from Addison, TX. No survivors.
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Originally posted by flashcrash View PostOr failure to drain the fuel sumps before the first flight of each day, resulting in water entering the lines immediately after takeoff. Has happened before.
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Originally posted by flashcrash View PostCuriously, in the previous incidents, failure to drain the fuel sumps affected just one engine. I'm speculating, but perhaps sudden/unexpected asymmetrical thrust?
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Originally posted by Evan View PostHow does [water in the fuel] that result in a sharp bank off the runway heading (in the absence of pilot error)?
And where is your proof that there was no pilot error involved in this crash?Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
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Originally posted by Evan View PostCryptic resolution as usual but it certainly looks like the plane was seriously yawing but level until it suddenly rolled over. Did they let it fall below vmca and/or stall?
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
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Originally posted by Gabriel View PostOr.... Vmc assumes that you are using full rudder, that the inop engine is feathered, and that you are using the correct bank angle needed to keep zero sideslip: about 5 degrees into the good engine.
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Is it me or does it look like the plane has yawed extremely to the left? Maybe it's just the angle to the video camera but it looks like the plane is flying nearly sideways just before the left wing drops.
I wonder if the pilot could have pushed the rudder in the wrong direction in response to an engine failure?Be alert! America needs more lerts.
Eric Law
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Originally posted by Evan View PostBut the apparent yaw in the video suggests the engine had already failed when they were flying level, for some time, until the plane suddenly rolls over. My guess is that they allowed the airspeed to decay to a critical point. What do you see happening there?
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
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Originally posted by elaw View PostIs it me or does it look like the plane has yawed extremely to the left? Maybe it's just the angle to the video camera but it looks like the plane is flying nearly sideways just before the left wing drops.
I wonder if the pilot could have pushed the rudder in the wrong direction in response to an engine failure?
Rudder in the opposite direction? I don't know, but I tend to think that that's unlikely, especially in Vmc. A pilot would naturally and instinctively respond with right rudder to what it is a visible left yawing regardless of engine(s) condition. But maybe no rudder if the pilot was distracted by the engine failure and not looking outside. Then (if the pilot was not looking outside) wrong rudder becomes more a possibility after all.
And then I thought that pilots would naturally respond to a stall warning by reducing the AoA and then we had Colgan and Air France that pushed up all the time.
So... who knows.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
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Originally posted by Gabriel View PostI agree, but that critical point is Vmc only if you manage the rest of the things correctly. If not the critical slow speed where control will be lost will be more (and can be quite more) than Vmc.
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Originally posted by Gabriel View PostI don't have the King Air 350 performance numbers. Do you have a link to them?
Anyway, yes, weight will affect take of speed and take off distance. Information I found in not necessarily reliable sources mention rotation speeds of 100 to 110 knots, which is consistent to what you said.
So, what happened? Did they rotate too slow? Were they above Vmc and still unable to control the plane due to incorrect technique? Was there any other malfunction? I don't know.
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Beechcraft King Air 350i
built since October 1972 until today - more than 3700 a/c sold since then.
2 turbo propeller engines, type P&W PT6A-60A with 1,050 horse power each.
Minimum required field length @ MTOW, with ISA conditions and a dry rwy (!) - 4193 ft or 1280 meter with zero flaps (ohne Klappen)
- so far the official B350 ref sheet. The following numbers, without ISA conditions, are in my very own B350 simulator log book. So, your numbers may differ.
Minimum required field length @ MTOW, with a 50 ft obstacle near the t/o moment - 6933 ft or 2112 meter with zero flaps.
That's powerful enough for Addison. If the B350 Flight Captain said 'full throttle ahead'. What, if he didn't.
Gabe, you insist on the B350 vR numbers? Always the same, do not use this for real world aviation, it is a (semi-pro) simulator procedure:
'Set both engines to a N1 number of 100 for t/o.'
v1 - 105 kias with 15,000 lb take off weight.
vR - 110 kias.
Maintain v2 - 117 kias until vertical speed is positive.
Then retract gear.
.. Do you need more? Climb with N1 90. ... I mean, in case of MTOW in a Beechcraft B350, your 'rough guess' was quite close if not perfect!The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.
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Originally posted by LH-B744 View PostHm. At a first glance, that does not seem like a miracule/mission impossibile, KADS airport, 1 rwy, 15/33 7,203 ft or 2195 meter @ 644 AMSL. You asked the internet for the B350 pilot's reference sheet, and no one responded? Well, let's see what I can do.
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Beechcraft King Air 350i
built since October 1972 until today - more than 3700 a/c sold since then.
2 turbo propeller engines, type P&W PT6A-60A with 1,050 horse power each.
Minimum required field length @ MTOW, with ISA conditions and a dry rwy (!) - 4193 ft or 1280 meter with zero flaps (ohne Klappen)
- so far the official B350 ref sheet. The following numbers, without ISA conditions, are in my very own B350 simulator log book. So, your numbers may differ.
Minimum required field length @ MTOW, with a 50 ft obstacle near the t/o moment - 6933 ft or 2112 meter with zero flaps.
That's powerful enough for Addison. If the B350 Flight Captain said 'full throttle ahead'. What, if he didn't.
Gabe, you insist on the B350 vR numbers? Always the same, do not use this for real world aviation, it is a (semi-pro) simulator procedure:
'Set both engines to a N1 number of 100 for t/o.'
v1 - 105 kias with 15,000 lb take off weight.
vR - 110 kias.
Maintain v2 - 117 kias until vertical speed is positive.
Then retract gear.
.. Do you need more? Climb with N1 90. ... I mean, in case of MTOW in a Beechcraft B350, your 'rough guess' was quite close if not perfect!
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