Originally posted by Evan
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Originally posted by kent olsen View PostGuys you're missing the point.
My position on this topic:
Believe me, one pilot or no pilot large aircraft is in the future.
To get an idea of the point I am making, research the history of the Airbus FBW certification process. Ardous and demanding. Very remote odds—essentially impossible odds—had to be established for a systems failure that might leave the aircraft uncontrollable. That's the standard we have to maintain.
When Southwest first started operating the B-737-300 they required one leg each day be hand flown. Well that went away. Now some of the younger pilots are uncomfortable with hand flying. For instance just before I retired I was ferrying a Citation X into Las Vegas to pick up some pax. My new to the company, co-pilot, in his 20's was the non-flying pilot. Wx was about 1500 overcast, tops around 17-18,000. I turned off the autopilot as we approached FL180. He abruptly said "what are you doing, what are you doing?" I asked what was the matter and he said "you're not going the hand fly thru the clouds are you? I said "yes I am". He said "yeah but then I'll have to watch and make sure nothing happens". I said "yes and that's what the non-flying pilot is supposed to do all the time".
My career in aviation went from light airplanes to DC-9's at Sunworld airlines, then DC-9's, DC-8's and B-747's with Evergreen. We always hand flew up to FL 180 and then back down from FL180 including the approach, (in the clouds). I finished my career with NetJets in the Hawker and Citation X. I still hand flew as before but most of the younger pilots used the auto-flight systems.
Is it safer when the flight crew are practiced in manual flight and ready to take over when a situation exceeds the autopilot capabilities or when the autopilot fails. Definitely.
So how do we do both? Or do we have to choose one and let the other go? Dilemma. We have to heighten a certain aspect of risk to reduce another certain aspect of risk.
Your post is a bit confusing because you are addressing two different topics. The topic of deteriorating manual flight skills is a dilemma without a perfect solution. The topic of moving to single-pilot or pilotless transport category passenger aircraft is a topic we can leave to future generations. One does not beget the other however. We can continue with two pilots managing an autoflight system for as long as we want.
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Originally posted by BoeingBobby View PostJust as ridiculous.
Again, the dilemma: We have to heighten a certain aspect of risk to reduce another certain aspect of risk.
The only was around this dilemma is to separate the handflying practice from the revenue flights. How do we do that in a non-ridiculous way? (NASA used the T-38, but they had a NASA budget)
We can mitigate the dilemma somewhat by maintaining uncompromising pilot-vetting and pilot-training standards before pilots ever get into revenue flying, but given today's profit- and growth-minded industry, that is probably the most ridiculous idea yet.
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Originally posted by BoeingBobby View PostYou let me know how it goes. I will have to be happy flying my J-3.
But to my first point. Over the years I've seen this. Seven or so years ago at the Mammoth Lakes airport was a guy training pilots to pass the Private Pilot written. Then was training them to operate UAV's. He told me he couldn't train them fast enough for all the openings. Hmm, I'm not sure where they are working, but. Then as I've said I've seen articles in Pro Pilot magazine and a couple others where they address aircraft without any pilots. I thought the next step would be single pilot and was surprised with the premise of NO pilots.
As I said with the retirement numbers increasing in the next 5-15 years I suspect the subject is going to surface more. When I retired from NetJets 4 years ago we had pilots 75 years old still flying. I think a few years ago the union agreed to lower the max age to 70.
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Originally posted by kent olsen View PostI thought the next step would be single pilot and was surprised with the premise of NO pilots.
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When we are ready for pilot-less, let's move to pilot-less. While we are not ready for pilot-less, let's keep 2 pilots and let's keep them actively hand flying (click-click, clack-clack) from time to time.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
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If you didn't yet, check the MSFS 2020 entry in the house's Flight Simulator forum.
I am 100% committed to buying my copy... except that I am not 100% committed in spending $2K+ in a computer that runs it.
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
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Originally posted by Gabriel View PostIf you didn't yet, check the MSFS 2020 entry in the house's Flight Simulator forum.
I am 100% committed to buying my copy... except that I am not 100% committed in spending $2K+ in a computer that runs it.
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