Collision at Haneda

[Evan]

On Jan 9th 2024 Japan's Ministry of Transport stated that the departure sequencing is no longer to be told to the flight crews, "number one" etc. is abandoned for departures. There is a possibility that the flight crew of the DH8C mistook that information as clearance for takeoff.

Shades of Tenerife.

[BoeingBobby]

"Number one for departure" "CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF" NAAA Not even close!

[Gabriel]

"Number one for departure" "CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF" NAAA Not even close!

To be fair, they didn't say that they might have mistaken "Number one for departure" for "Cleared for takeoff", but that they might have mistaken "Number one for departure" as a clearance for take off. They didn't misunderstood the words, they misunderstood the meaning.

[Evan]

To be fair, they didn't say that they might have mistaken "Number one for departure" for "Cleared for takeoff", but that they might have mistaken "Number one for departure" as a clearance for take off. They didn't misunderstood the words, they misunderstood the meaning.

Like Tenerife. And, like Tenerife, the standard terminology was changed as a result, from 'takeoff' to 'departure'. So this crew might have interpreted the ATC instruction as 'first in line for takeoff, taxi onto runway C at taxiway 5, line up and wait". Or just roll...

[3WE]

"Number one for departure" "CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF" NAAA Not even close!

Concur BUT they entered the runway and there’s suggestions they were rolling…

…no idea what they were thinking, and I wonder if not_seeing a red light somehow confirmed a thought they were cleared for takeoff.

[Gabriel]

Like Tenerife. And, like Tenerife, the standard terminology was changed as a result, from 'takeoff' to 'departure'. So this crew might have interpreted the ATC instruction as 'first in line for takeoff, taxi onto runway C at taxiway 5, line up and wait". Or just roll...

But the exact wording was:

ATC: JA722A, Tokio tower, good evening. Number one, taxi to holding point charlie five

JA722A: Taxi to holding point charlie five, JA722A, number one, thank you

[TeeVee]

I find it hard to imagine that you can mow down something as large as a Dash 8 twin turboprop, creating a massive fireball and not realize it. But I’ve never done this so, maybe…

with the technology today, planes maybe should be equipped with cameras mounted outside giving views of the plane, uh, kinda like this, available on some carriers to the self-loading cargo in the back.

[thor]

wasn't that the tower calling, number one for departure an international standard? or each airport can have different wording?

[thor]

it was said that the stop bars are usually only used when the visibility is 600 m (2,000 ft) or lower and thus would not have been switched on at the time of the incident.

[flashcrash]

Concur BUT they entered the runway and there’s suggestions they were rolling…

The high res wide-angle video of the incident appears to show the Dash 8 stationary on the runway for just under 50 seconds before the impact. I don't think the reports that it was moving at the time are credible.

…no idea what they were thinking, and I wonder if not seeing a red light somehow confirmed a thought they were cleared for takeoff

According to NHK the pilot when interviewed said he had been cleared for takeoff. But when confronted with the ATC audio recording he acknowledged that he had not been. However .... is sitting stationary on a busy runway for 50 seconds without any subsequent communication with ATC really consistent with believing you're cleared for takeoff? Perhaps he felt he had clearance to line up and wait and this was simply misreported as "cleared for takeoff" by NHK?

Air controller, Coast Guard captain give differing accounts of Haneda crash | NHK WORLD-JAPAN News