Second Turnback This Week Due to Unruly Pax

[3WE]

***The flu is a harder thing to target because it mutates much faster, about four times faster that Covid.***

Bullcrap.

Pigweeed mutates an order of magnitude or two less than viruses PERIOD…

And has developed resistance to most of our effective chemistry.

Bugs, Roaches, Rats, Weeds, Bacteria, Viruses…big numbers, high reproductive rates (millions, billions, gillions doesn’t matter)…it’s the SAME mechanism…(and painfully simple math).

Masks, vaccines, pesticides, D-Con; Mother Nature abhors a vacuum…

[TeeVee]

evan wont admit it but a universal anything will not be coming along anytime soon. i invested in a company developing a universal flu vaccine. successful stage 1 trials. i bought some more shares. then? stage 2 an utter failure. i only lost a couple of thousand. anyway, let's let evan go one believing that science can conclusively beat mother nature while he wears his mask.

[Gabriel]

let's let evan go one believing that science can conclusively beat mother nature while he wears his mask.

Here we go again... What does "beating mother nature" even mean?

Like airplanes? Like submarines? Like splitting the atom? Like microchips and computers? Like vaccines against polio, diphtheria, pertussis, rubella, and chickenpox? Like organ transplant? Like anesthesia? Like GMOs? Like selective breeding and cross breading (another form of genetic engineering)?

Believe me, NOTHING that we do, ever did, and will ever do, will be outside of the laws of Mother Nature.

[Evan]

evan wont admit it but a universal anything will not be coming along anytime soon. i invested in a company developing a universal flu vaccine. successful stage 1 trials. i bought some more shares. then? stage 2 an utter failure. i only lost a couple of thousand. anyway, let's let evan go one believing that science can conclusively beat mother nature while he wears his mask.

Right. So...... because you invested in research on one of the many paths being developed for a universal influenza vaccine, and that path did not yield results after a brisk two stages, we must conclude, conclusively, that a universal Covid vaccine is not forthcoming. That's some bewildering logic TeeVee (and bewildering investment strategy).

A universal influenza vaccine is not coming this year but when did I ever say it was? I am placing my short-term hope in a universal Omicron vaccine, which is being developed as we speak. The technologies that this development yields can then open the path to develop universal coronavirus and influenza vaccines down the road. What you seem to be missing is that vaccine science is at a breakthrough moment, and that moment was built on decades of trial and error and a fair amount of serendipity. That is why a robust Covid-19 vaccine was developed in a matter of months rather than years following the emergence of this entirely novel virus.

And some investment advice: up until now, most of the universal vaccine research was being done in universities and outlier research labs starved for funding. Investors favored seasonal vaccines, products with obsolescence cycles. That might soon change.

We are not 'beating Mother Nature". We are getting to know her.

[BoeingBobby]

The mid-air in Las Vegas was because of masks! At least there is an airplane involved in the post.

[3WE]

1. ***I am placing my short-term hope in a universal Omicron vaccine, which is being developed as we speak.***

2. ***We are not 'beating Mother Nature". We are getting to know her.***

1. Wise that you said short term. Looks to me like we’ve got 9 more variants, and maybe then it’s just another RSV: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet

2. “Getting to know”??? LOL, how many more times to I have to explain: Big ass numbers, choose a mutation rate, Gabe has a somewhat mechanistic growth curve with A. Good r^2 values and B. constants that can be adjusted for masks. C. The upper ass-emp-tote may not vary much.

[TeeVee]

Right. So...... because you invested in research on one of the many paths being developed for a universal influenza vaccine, and that path did not yield results after a brisk two stages, we must conclude, conclusively, that a universal Covid vaccine is not forthcoming. That's some bewildering logic TeeVee (and bewildering investment strategy).

A universal influenza vaccine is not coming this year but when did I ever say it was? I am placing my short-term hope in a universal Omicron vaccine, which is being developed as we speak. The technologies that this development yields can then open the path to develop universal coronavirus and influenza vaccines down the road. What you seem to be missing is that vaccine science is at a breakthrough moment, and that moment was built on decades of trial and error and a fair amount of serendipity. That is why a robust Covid-19 vaccine was developed in a matter of months rather than years following the emergence of this entirely novel virus.

And some investment advice: up until now, most of the universal vaccine research was being done in universities and outlier research labs starved for funding. Investors favored seasonal vaccines, products with obsolescence cycles. That might soon change.

We are not 'beating Mother Nature". We are getting to know her.

and yet again evan moves the sticks. first it's a universal covid vax now it's a a universal omicron vax. conveniently universal to a single strain?

you place your short-term hope in a pie-in-the-sky "universal omicron vax" while i bet on a well-funded outfit with a great idea that failed during the proper testing of a new drug. only difference is, my horse didn't have govt and big pharma covering up their secrets like the FDA is hiding some insane number of documents from the public.

two brisk trials? uh, you mean the trials for the existing covid vaxs were long-term, robust, double blind controlled studies that lasted for years? uh huh. face it. the trials were rushed as no others were rushed in the history of trials. i'm not complaining, just making a point. i wonder if we went back and looked at what the results were if we will see disclaimers from the pharmas or govt about how short-lived the protection would be, and how we would need "boosters" essentially forever to stay protected. convenient how that creates an income stream for pharma with govt blessing. oh wait. am i am being too conservative for you?

it is not "an entirely novel virus." if it were, it would not have been classed as an existing type of virus, i.e., corona...

[TeeVee]

Here we go again... What does "beating mother nature" even mean?

Like airplanes? Like submarines? Like splitting the atom? Like microchips and computers? Like vaccines against polio, diphtheria, pertussis, rubella, and chickenpox? Like organ transplant? Like anesthesia? Like GMOs? Like selective breeding and cross breading (another form of genetic engineering)?

Believe me, NOTHING that we do, ever did, and will ever do, will be outside of the laws of Mother Nature.

science fails. all the time. 40+ years and no cure or vaccine for HIV. billions and billions spent on research. shit, not even fauci could be that bug! airplanes aren't beating nature, they are mimicking it. we simply copied the basic design of the bird. subs dont beat nature either. they work around it. try stepping outside a sub and 1200' below the surface and see how well we beat nature. organ transplants fail more often than we probably know about and most times the recipients have to take immunosupressant drugs to fight our bodies' rejection, which in and of themselves cause other problems like increasing susceptibility of dying from things like, um, er, covd-19. anesthesia isnt beating mother nature in any shape or form, unless you know something about it that i dont. selective breeding isnt beating mother nature. it's changing the path. same for GMO.

[Gabriel]

science fails. all the time.

After that assertion, it's not worth discussing anymore, but for the children that may be out there getting des-educated by you:

Science is not perfect, but it (together with its applied for, engineering) is the most successful and effective invention of mankind ever. BY FAR!

40+ years and no cure or vaccine for HIV.
Maybe, but HIV has turned from a terminal illness that kills you in a few years to a chronic illness that can be kept under control, akin to Diabetes or such. The life expectancy after acquiring AIDS has expanded so much that people that acquired it 20 years ago are starting to die of old age. And science may have not totally cured AIDS yet(and other diseases that have proven to be challenging), but do you know how many other did cure? Do you know how many vaccines do work?

airplanes aren't beating nature, they are mimicking it. we simply copied the basic design of the bird.
Wrong. Aviation started to be successful as we desisted to attempt to copy birds. Yes, they both use lift, as both horses and cars use static friction for propulsion. Are cars simply copies of the basic design of the horse?

subs don't beat nature either.
Of course subs don't beat nature. NOTHING beats nature. That's my point. That doesn't mean that we cannot invent effective things that use nature as a tool. Like submarines.

organ transplants fail more often than we probably know ... immunosupressant ... cause other problems like increasing susceptibility of dying from things like, um, er, covd-19.
And yet, they save lives and give extra years of good life quality to millions of people. Not always, of course, but the ones that die after a failed organ transplant were going to die anyway without one. So it is not zero sum. People who died due to COVID 19 due to being immunodepressed due to a transplant may have enjoyed their children for 10 years between the transplant and the COVID19 death, instead of dying 10 years ago due to double kidney failure. Sure, had they died 10 years ago they would have never gotten COVID. Duh!

anesthesia isnt beating mother nature in any shape or form,
Again, nothing is beating nature. But before we learned how to make and use anesthetics people had their leg amputated with a manual saw, awake, and with no numbing.

selective breeding isnt beating mother nature. it's changing the path. same for GMO.
Nothing is beating nature. But they are things that would have not happened without our intervention. And those things are feeding the world.

[BoeingBobby]

science fails. all the time. 40+ years and no cure or vaccine for HIV. billions and billions spent on research. shit, not even fauci could be that bug! airplanes aren't beating nature, they are mimicking it. we simply copied the basic design of the bird. subs dont beat nature either. they work around it. try stepping outside a sub and 1200' below the surface and see how well we beat nature. organ transplants fail more often than we probably know about and most times the recipients have to take immunosupressant drugs to fight our bodies' rejection, which in and of themselves cause other problems like increasing susceptibility of dying from things like, um, er, covd-19. anesthesia isnt beating mother nature in any shape or form, unless you know something about it that i dont. selective breeding isnt beating mother nature. it's changing the path. same for GMO.

How did you ever pass the bar exam???

[Evan]

science fails. all the time... airplanes aren't beating nature, they are mimicking it. we simply copied the basic design of the bird.

That's true, at first. We did copy the bird. That went down like Icarus. And then we tried science. Newtonian physics. Fluid dynamics. Research on lift properties using cambered surfaces and angles of attack. A lot of math. Early wind-tunnelesque experiments. The Wright Brothers did quite a bit of this prior to getting it right. None of it involved birds.

What I want to know is, what is a science-averse person doing on an aviation safety forum, which depends upon some very progressive (and successful) application of science?

[TeeVee]

After that assertion, it's not worth discussing anymore, but for the children that may be out there getting des-educated by you:

Science is not perfect, but it (together with its applied for, engineering) is the most successful and effective invention of mankind ever. BY FAR!

40+ years and no cure or vaccine for HIV.
Maybe, but HIV has turned from a terminal illness that kills you in a few years to a chronic illness that can be kept under control, akin to Diabetes or such. The life expectancy after acquiring AIDS has expanded so much that people that acquired it 20 years ago are starting to die of old age. And science may have not totally cured AIDS yet(and other diseases that have proven to be challenging), but do you know how many other did cure? Do you know how many vaccines do work?

airplanes aren't beating nature, they are mimicking it. we simply copied the basic design of the bird.
Wrong. Aviation started to be successful as we desisted to attempt to copy birds. Yes, they both use lift, as both horses and cars use static friction for propulsion. Are cars simply copies of the basic design of the horse?

subs don't beat nature either.
Of course subs don't beat nature. NOTHING beats nature. That's my point. That doesn't mean that we cannot invent effective things that use nature as a tool. Like submarines.

organ transplants fail more often than we probably know ... immunosupressant ... cause other problems like increasing susceptibility of dying from things like, um, er, covd-19.
And yet, they save lives and give extra years of good life quality to millions of people. Not always, of course, but the ones that die after a failed organ transplant were going to die anyway without one. So it is not zero sum. People who died due to COVID 19 due to being immunodepressed due to a transplant may have enjoyed their children for 10 years between the transplant and the COVID19 death, instead of dying 10 years ago due to double kidney failure. Sure, had they died 10 years ago they would have never gotten COVID. Duh!

anesthesia isnt beating mother nature in any shape or form,
Again, nothing is beating nature. But before we learned how to make and use anesthetics people had their leg amputated with a manual saw, awake, and with no numbing.

selective breeding isnt beating mother nature. it's changing the path. same for GMO.
Nothing is beating nature. But they are things that would have not happened without our intervention. And those things are feeding the world.

wow! you are more like van every day. first you attack me and give a list of examples wherein what, exactly? that science prevailed? woohoo. now you say once again that mother nature can't be beat.

we did copy the bird's design and still do. we simply changed the manner of providing thrust since we couldnt generate enough to lift our unnatural designs. lings still provide lift (even if we can't explain how) tails still control flight. i'll grant you that some hyper-modern designs dont use tailwings.

i wont bother going through the rest of the list since you aren't paying attention. but i'll leave you with this. there is no more reason to think we will beat sars cov-2 than we could hiv. i dont give a shit that we are now 40 years more advanced. all that advance hasnt beaten hiv. if and when we do, we will have. until then...

and yes, i know very well how real vaccines work. i also know very well how the protective flu shots and protective covid shots work. neither are truly work.

[TeeVee]

That's true, at first. We did copy the bird. That went down like Icarus. And then we tried science. Newtonian physics. Fluid dynamics. Research on lift properties using cambered surfaces and angles of attack. A lot of math. Early wind-tunnelesque experiments. The Wright Brothers did quite a bit of this prior to getting it right. None of it involved birds.

What I want to know is, what is a science-averse person doing on an aviation safety forum, which depends upon some very progressive (and successful) application of science?

i am not science averse. but i also dont give science credit just because you do. when science is proven, read again, PROVEN, then it is science. until then it is just theory or a hypothesis.

scientists hypothesize and theorize. they dont say they have accomplished anything until they have.

i simply doubted that were close to what you first called a "universal covid vaccine" anymore than we had successfully created any working covid vaccine. when we have any covid vaccine that doesnt need to be boosted every 4-six months, i could give a shit less how huge the initial immune response is. (that's not to say i wont use them). but i will not admit that they are vaccines anymore than i will admit the flu shot is a flu vaccine.

sure, nothing is forever. but m sister recently applied for a job in healthcare and had to prove her titers from several vaccinated against diseases were sufficiently high. she is 59 years old and got all those vaccines as a young child. and ya know what? zero boosters in 45+ years and she still has immunity. THAT my friend is a vaccine. everything else is just a shot (whether it works or not)

[TeeVee]

How did you ever pass the bar exam???

probably the same way you passed whatever flying exams you passed

[Gabriel]

According to Merriam-Webster:
vaccine: a preparation that is administered to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease.

According to TeeVee:
TDAP is not a vaccine.